I guess all coems down to if the captain backs his bowlers or not. When Australia were at their best they backed themselves to win from just about any situation and they did declare on a number of occasiosn to try and force a test result even if the 4th innings score was attainable. Ok so things are a little different now in that Australia are not the quality side they were then bit the situation remains the same. Australia simply have to win this test, it is an all or nothing moment in the series.

Time for the Aussie bowlers to step up and say we can defend 300 runs on this wicket. And also early England wickets falling have been as predictable as wet Manchester weather. Trott is out of nick, Root still very prone as an opener even after the good knock at Lords, Cook is out of form still and KP got his runs in the first innings - so often you see a player go for just a few in their second knock. I really would have fancied a few wickets falling if the Aussies had put them in.

Also to win tests you sometimes have to let the other side still think they have a chance of winning so that they don't block for a draw. England might have been much more expansive if they were chasing say 260 - 280 and that gives opportunities.

Have to agree with this. I was very happy yesterday, getting back from a nice run, to see us well past the follow on. The pitch is still playing like a road, the ball has done nothing (really for either side). Its been a classic example of a very good toss to win. If England had batted first we would be cursing the rain today as we would have racked up the runs.

Re TMS and TV, one thing no-one has mentioned is the time lag. TV is about 5 seconds behind nowadays, so its just not feasible to have the sound of TMS and pictures of Sky, at least not in the conventional way. Works really well if you are gardening/cooking or something away from the TV etc as you get just enought time to see it 'live' on the TV...

"Time on England's side as Manchester sends in the clouds," writes Gideon Haigh in the Times, noting that "the quickest England moved all day was at 4.26pm when the umpires decided the light was an issue, whereupon they set PBs for spontaneous ground evacuation and feat up-putting".

Agreed... Will be nice to get a full day in, from a neutral point of view.

Sometimes they can get the outfield dried surprisingly quickly nowadays so i wouldnt rule out there being some play - it does look like rain will move back in by lunch though.

Don't panic - light will probably below the reading they took yesterday too...

Chillax, plenty of rain following on, will probably be dry for an hour or so but plenty to come. Will probably see some play.

According Test Match Special - they may start at 11.30!

Australia have declared and we are going to try for an 11.30am start, so England will need to chase 332 in, perhaps optimistically, 98 overs. From cricinfo.

Are you looking at the radar? The rain to the S is barely moving towards Manchester. Much like yesterday, the radar tells a very different story from the forecast. It won't be a full day, but I think you are kidding yourself if you think most of the day will be lost to rain.

EDIT: GFS yesterday night had the ppn very light for Manchester for most of the day after about now, and nothing at all from 4pm onwards. Like I say, just look at the radar.

Have to agree with Nick, I think there will be more play than expected

If it does turn out that way, that will be 2 atrocious forecasts in a row. All in all, the forecasts have been shocking this summer, from Bristol to Aberdeen... and now for Manchester.

Like I said... chillax....give the opportunity to get out there and hopefully frustrate Australia, I am not worried if England have to go out there to save the game, if they are good enough today they will get a draw, if not they will get beaten.

I suggest you go and get some fresh underpants 

Still think the rain will dominate, but it has to be said the forecasts have not matched the reality for the last two days. You have to wonder if they look back themselves and try to use this in future?

I'm perfectly relaxed and am not bricking it... I'm just commenting on the weather and the difference between the forecast and the reality.

Agreed.

The thing is I could see from the GFS last night that the ppn over Manchester was not going to amount to much after the morning and would then disappear completely by mid afternoon. That plus the radar today which made it clear whatr would happen. Shocking. It's as if they don't bother looking at the radar.

0-1 - just starting to wonder today...

Awful weather forecasts.