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marting
05 January 2014 08:29:40

Just had a look through the GFS ensembles and the ECM short ensembles and both showing a variety of options, but all have a definite cool down and some cold runs appearing more and more in numbers. Just waiting on loger ECM ensembles now. A move away from a wet period is almost there.


Martin


Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
GIBBY
05 January 2014 08:58:58

Good morning everyone. Here is this morning's account of the midnight outputs of the NWP for toeday Sunday January 5th 2013 taken from http://www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk/Model-Analysis(2859336).htm


All models shows another very deep depression crossing slowly ENE across the Atlantic to reach an area to the North of Scotland as a filling feature by Wednesday of this week. The next 72 hours will be characterized by a spell of rain crossing East today to be followed by a couple of days of blustery and heavy showers, especially near Southern and Western coasts but some drier spells in the more sheltered East. Winds will be strong to gale force SWl'y but should subside towards midweek with temperatures holding well up to average of not a little above in the South. Soon after midweek all areas will become quieter with light winds but with slow moving troughs caught up in the slack flow over the South which could give rise to further copious rainfall, not helpful at all to the current flooding situation.


GFS makes less of this feature gradually drying things up after Thursday as High pressure glides east over France. A Southerly breeze develops in it's wake and it isn't long before low pressure once more develops close to the West, moving North-East and renewing rain events to all areas in blustery winds. This format retains it's place then for the remainder of the run with strong winds again shown later with just brief drier spells under transient ridges over the South. Temperatures look like holding largely close to average.


UKMO this morning closes on Saturday with High pressure to the SE and light winds over the UK and a light SW flow over the North. A front looks like being straddled across Southern Britain in light winds meaning a slow moving area of rain could lie close by with largely cloudy skies while the North has the best chance of seeing somewhat brighter conditions.


GEM is the driest model run this morning with events later in the week showing a steady drying up process with all frontal activity removed by the weekend as High pressure develops over Scandinavia. This migrates slowly South and West late in the run to be positioned close to NE Britain by Day 10. The weather would turn cold and frosty with some sunny spells but a cold and raw SE wind would likely develop over many areas though it would likely stay largely dry.


NAVGEM shows slack pressure late in the week and over the weekend over the South with slow moving troughs again running the risk of creating wet conditions over the South before the pattern looks like becoming a little more changeable and mobile again from the West following next weekend.


ECM today also shows slack pressure towards the end of the run and with upper troughs caught up in the slack airflow it looks unlikely to be guaranteed dry with the South most at risk of some prolonged rain while the North sees the best chance of brighter conditions with a little more wind pushing troughs through rather quicker.


The ECM 10 Day Mean Chart today is better news for cold fans as it now supports in a bigger way High pressure over Scandinavia and a slack Southerly feed the most likely bias over the UK. Low pressure has a much weaker bias to towards the NW this morning. With a continental feed injected over the UK there I would think be good support from the members of it's ensembles for very much colder conditions to arrive after next weekend.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.gif


The GFS Ensembles do show a dip this morning below average in Week 2 with some unsettled and mobile weather still thrown into the mix by some members. There are rather more members though approaching the -10C value later in the run with a wider spread from all the members averaging a bias towards the cold end of the range.


The Jet Stream Forecast shows the lengthy spell of West to East movement over the Atlantic and Southern Britain coming to an end later next week. The flow looks like disrupting late this week and particularly at the European end appears to be forced to lower latitudes indicating the possibility of High pressure over Northern European latitudes.


In Summary there is a change in the weather on the way although changes involving the cessation of rainfall may have to be more patient. From the middle of the week gales will be a thing of the past but some stubborn slow moving troughs could keep things potentially wet at times in the South until the weekend. From thereon we have a split with GFS and NAVGEM going the way of returning unsettled and windy conditions with yet more rain in the second week while UKMO and ECM operational shows a High pressure to the SE with an Atlantic drift over the NW where some rain would become likely again later. The more interesting slant this morning is shown by the ensembles which especially from ECM show their greatest indicator yet of pressure becoming High to the East and NE and throwing much colder weather our way as a result. The margin for error is very fine though and we need to see more cross model support before shouting from the rooftops. Nevertheless, it looks like at last the Atlantic may be running out of steam for a time so all areas look almost guaranteed of becoming rather drier and certainly much less windy and with the natural increased risk of cold weather occurring from Europe later in the Winter it is from these predicted weaker Atlantic synoptics that cold spells can develop quite quickly should things fall into place correctly.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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Ally Pally Snowman
05 January 2014 09:08:21

It's looks to me that our drier and anticyclonic period of weather has been somewhat downgraded to more of a transitory and passing ridge on most of the output this morning and mostly benefitting the south. There are ominous signs developing that the form horse for high pressure to sink south into France will open the door to another zonal and mobile set up in the longer term. Thankfully it doesn't look quite as extreme as our recent atlantic onslaught though !


One to watch but certainly more confidence in this set up than anything properly cold and wintry in the longer term. 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2401.png GFS


 http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.gif  ECM


 High pressure on the UKMO 144 looks fragile.. likely the atlantic will turn things wetter again moving forward too.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm1441.gif


 

Originally Posted by: Gusty 




Think you are being overly pessimistic the ECM ensembles have been trending colder everyday with today the coldest of the winter. I think we have a 50/50 shot at a proper cold spell within the next 10 to 15 days


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php 

Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
doctormog
05 January 2014 09:13:34

Morning all. After a quick flick through the data this morning it looks like the potential HP spell is tenuous to say the least. However, the good news is that it looks overall less stormy and perhaps with more of a pressure rise to the South we could start to get more of a Southerly influence on things turning it a little more milder than of late. Bands of rain shouldn't be as heavy but zonal is still the form horse for the longer term IMO

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 



May I suggest a slower flick as it may give a more accurate indication of this morning's output? [sn_smile]
roger63
05 January 2014 09:19:12

Trends in GFS ensembles 0h run.Shows  ratio Zonal : Anticyclonic ensembles (brackets previous days)


144h 60:40(90:10,90:10)


240h 70:30(65:35,65:35)


360h 55:45(80:20,90:10)


Shows attempt to build HP around 144h mostly to east.However by 240h any HP has  generally been pushed away SE.Another attempt to build HP by 360h ,witha majority of tHE HP being Scandinavia Greenland<iceland.


Opportunity for  stronger more persistent HP build around 144h 168hr but odds still on zonal Atlantic prevailing.


Encouraging trend out at  360h and nearing the 50% Anticyclonic ensembles level.

Retron
05 January 2014 09:20:20



Think you are being overly pessimistic the ECM ensembles have been trending colder everyday with today the coldest of the winter. I think we have a 50/50 shot at a proper cold spell within the next 10 to 15 days

http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


FWIW, the more detailed ensembles paint an interesting picture:


http://www.weerplaza.nl/15daagseverwachting/?r=zuidwest&type=eps_pluim


For the past few days the median wind direction post the 9th has been southerly. Some runs had it west of south, some slightly east. That's changed significantly today with a brief ESE'ly median, followed by a few days of a SE'ly median. That reflects the strong clustering of runs between a SW'ly type and a Continental feed - for the Netherlands at least it's a 50/50 split.


It's also interesting to see that even the SW'ly types aren't overly mild. Given the wind would be coming in off a sea which is 9 or 10C, it shows an absence of tropical maritime air.


 


Leysdown, north Kent
Snowedin3
05 January 2014 09:22:47
Don't think there's anything mild in the longerterm this morning looking forward to a settled period with some cool days and frosty nights
Dean Barnes
Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
160m ASL 525 Ft
Gooner
05 January 2014 09:25:09

http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gefs/gefsens850London0.png


Definate cooling trend for ALL to see


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


nsrobins
05 January 2014 09:28:32

The mean GEFS solution is more hopeful of much drier and calmer weather from midweek.
Whether it's eventually significantly colder or not and how long it lasts is still debatable but the main thing IMO is that for 5 or so days at least we get out of this relentless wind and rain.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
John p
05 January 2014 09:38:24

Morning all. After a quick flick through the data this morning it looks like the potential HP spell is tenuous to say the least. However, the good news is that it looks overall less stormy and perhaps with more of a pressure rise to the South we could start to get more of a Southerly influence on things turning it a little more milder than of late. Bands of rain shouldn't be as heavy but zonal is still the form horse for the longer term IMO

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



May I suggest a slower flick as it may give a more accurate indication of this morning's output? [sn_smile]

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 



Indeed!

Camberley, Surrey
Gooner
05 January 2014 09:38:50


well it wasn't untill the 20th last year that I saw snow , so plenty of time yet.........................it is only 5th January


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Karl Guille
05 January 2014 09:48:11



Think you are being overly pessimistic the ECM ensembles have been trending colder everyday with today the coldest of the winter. I think we have a 50/50 shot at a proper cold spell within the next 10 to 15 days

http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php

Originally Posted by: Retron 


FWIW, the more detailed ensembles paint an interesting picture:


http://www.weerplaza.nl/15daagseverwachting/?r=zuidwest&type=eps_pluim


For the past few days the median wind direction post the 9th has been southerly. Some runs had it west of south, some slightly east. That's changed significantly today with a brief ESE'ly median, followed by a few days of a SE'ly median. That reflects the strong clustering of runs between a SW'ly type and a Continental feed - for the Netherlands at least it's a 50/50 split.


It's also interesting to see that even the SW'ly types aren't overly mild. Given the wind would be coming in off a sea which is 9 or 10C, it shows an absence of tropical maritime air.


 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



Interesting charts there Retron, especially the contrast between north-east and south-west Holland where mean max daytime temperatures in the former don't get above freezing (with mean dew points circa -4) and in the latter are around +3 or 4 (dew points circa -1)!


St. Sampson
Guernsey
Sasa
  • Sasa
  • Advanced Member
05 January 2014 09:49:22


0z ECM ensembles:

http://oi40.tinypic.com/2v7tiz8.jpg

The trend from the last few days is still very much present with the switch to a drier, less windy spell of weather showing up well. It's noteworthy too that the median maximum temperature is now below average from the 11th onwards, with a median high of just 3C by the end of the run.

In comparison the 12z run had 6C median highs on the 10th-12th, with a median high of 5C on the 13th and 14th.

Based on that, I expect the London 15-day plume will show lower temperatures overall past the 11th compared to last night's run:

http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html

When considered alongside the GEFS (which favours the cold cluster this morning, as it did on the 18z too) it all adds up to the "what comes next?" question being answered with "probably colder".


EDIT: As with yesterday's output, note the almost complete absense of >10C temperatures past the 11th. Whatever comes next is unlikely to be especially mild!


Originally Posted by: Retron 


 


Looks like to me there is less and less on offer for the mild weather fans as we get deeper into January. Runs tending to show a slow build up of more average weather conditions. Sounds like the winter will come to collect what is overdue later in January and February as the weather decides to go probably from one extreme to another.


Kingston Upon Thames
JACKO4EVER
05 January 2014 09:59:04

Morning all. After a quick flick through the data this morning it looks like the potential HP spell is tenuous to say the least. However, the good news is that it looks overall less stormy and perhaps with more of a pressure rise to the South we could start to get more of a Southerly influence on things turning it a little more milder than of late. Bands of rain shouldn't be as heavy but zonal is still the form horse for the longer term IMO

Originally Posted by: John p 



May I suggest a slower flick as it may give a more accurate indication of this morning's output? [sn_smile]

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



Indeed!

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Only my interpretation of current offerings- not saying I am right or your wrong, but never the less surely I am entitled to an opinion LOL? I see Gusty mentioned something along the same lines with any HP possibly ending up over France.
One thing we can agree on though is that hopefully there will be less rain and stormy conditions on offer! I think we all perhaps would welcome that!
David M Porter
05 January 2014 10:15:09

Morning all. After a quick flick through the data this morning it looks like the potential HP spell is tenuous to say the least. However, the good news is that it looks overall less stormy and perhaps with more of a pressure rise to the South we could start to get more of a Southerly influence on things turning it a little more milder than of late. Bands of rain shouldn't be as heavy but zonal is still the form horse for the longer term IMO

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 



May I suggest a slower flick as it may give a more accurate indication of this morning's output? Smile

Originally Posted by: John p 



Indeed!

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Only my interpretation of current offerings- not saying I am right or your wrong, but never the less surely I am entitled to an opinion LOL? I see Gusty mentioned something along the same lines with any HP possibly ending up over France.
One thing we can agree on though is that hopefully there will be less rain and stormy conditions on offer! I think we all perhaps would welcome that!

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


I'm pretty sure that everyone would be happy to see that, given what we've had over the past three weeks Jacko.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Gooner
05 January 2014 10:20:08

Morning all. After a quick flick through the data this morning it looks like the potential HP spell is tenuous to say the least. However, the good news is that it looks overall less stormy and perhaps with more of a pressure rise to the South we could start to get more of a Southerly influence on things turning it a little more milder than of late. Bands of rain shouldn't be as heavy but zonal is still the form horse for the longer term IMO

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 



May I suggest a slower flick as it may give a more accurate indication of this morning's output? Smile

Originally Posted by: John p 



Indeed!

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Only my interpretation of current offerings- not saying I am right or your wrong, but never the less surely I am entitled to an opinion LOL? I see Gusty mentioned something along the same lines with any HP possibly ending up over France.
One thing we can agree on though is that hopefully there will be less rain and stormy conditions on offer! I think we all perhaps would welcome that!

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Yes but we all know that you and now sadly Steve ( due to age  ) dont want cold and snow


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


JACKO4EVER
05 January 2014 10:46:21

Morning all. After a quick flick through the data this morning it looks like the potential HP spell is tenuous to say the least. However, the good news is that it looks overall less stormy and perhaps with more of a pressure rise to the South we could start to get more of a Southerly influence on things turning it a little more milder than of late. Bands of rain shouldn't be as heavy but zonal is still the form horse for the longer term IMO

Originally Posted by: Gooner 



May I suggest a slower flick as it may give a more accurate indication of this morning's output? Smile

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 



Indeed!

Originally Posted by: John p 


Only my interpretation of current offerings- not saying I am right or your wrong, but never the less surely I am entitled to an opinion LOL? I see Gusty mentioned something along the same lines with any HP possibly ending up over France.
One thing we can agree on though is that hopefully there will be less rain and stormy conditions on offer! I think we all perhaps would welcome that!

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Yes but we all know that you and now sadly Steve ( due to age  ) dont want cold and snow

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


I am getting old too you know!


Gusty
05 January 2014 10:55:40

Signs of a stormy atlantic breakthrough on the GFS 6z.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1921.png


 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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Retron
05 January 2014 11:10:18


Signs of a stormy atlantic breakthrough on the GFS 6z.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1921.png


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Yup, I expect the 6z ensembles won't be as cold as the 0z either (as that's what's happened over the past two days).


Meanwhile here are the London EPS plumes:


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html?dlink


Coldest run of the winter so far.


Leysdown, north Kent
Polar Low
05 January 2014 11:15:11

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=192&mode=0&carte=1


I like that at least it would dry up and feel very cold in the s/e wind with some proper frost.


 

Gusty
05 January 2014 11:29:40



Signs of a stormy atlantic breakthrough on the GFS 6z.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1921.png


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Yup, I expect the 6z ensembles won't be as cold as the 0z either (as that's what's happened over the past two days).


Meanwhile here are the London EPS plumes:


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html?dlink


Coldest run of the winter so far.


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Yep..ECM seems a lot keener to give us more of a high pressure influence with possible weak continental influences (probably the SE). Overnight frosts would make things 'feel' far more seasonal here. The drier theme would be most welcome too. I would expect if ECM ensembles were available for locations further north and west they would be recording higher temperatures under more W/SW'ly atlantic influences. 


 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



Polar Low
05 January 2014 11:37:57

At least nav has some consistancy a few small tweeks things could turn very cold at short notice


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgeme_cartes.php?&ech=144&mode=0&carte=1


 


 


 

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