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Bugglesgate
08 May 2015 17:38:06


They strategized to unleash the nationalist beast in Scotland via the referendum and knowing where the end game of that play would leave Labour, again, all about power and nothing to do with the lies Cameron was spewing this morning.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


 


I really   think you are giving them too much credit  here -I  don't think they are that clever -  I'm pretty sure nobody was more  surprised  than Cameron  when he ended up with a working majority !

Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
KevBrads1
08 May 2015 17:40:57


The biggest joke was Cameron bullshitting on this morning about wanting to be a one nation Tory and to work for our United Kingdom.


I realise the Tories are shameless.  I realise they have cannibalised their bedfellows the Lib Dems in the pursuit of power.  They strategized to unleash the nationalist beast in Scotland via the referendum and knowing where the end game of that play would leave Labour, again, all about power and nothing to do with the lies Cameron was spewing this morning.


Personally financially I will be better off this morning under a new Tory administration IF they keep to their bribes from the election period.


But I voted to support the more vulnerable members of our society for whom I now genuinely fear in a Tory government with out the sanitizing influence of the now cannibalised Lib Dems.


 


A sad day and a worrying future for Britain.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


So was the Labour campaign all right? 

MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists
Maunder Minimum
08 May 2015 17:42:44


 


 


I really   think you are giving them too much credit  here -I  don't think they are that clever -  I'm pretty sure nobody was more  surprised  than Cameron  when he ended up with a working majority !


Originally Posted by: Bugglesgate 


Quite! Nobody could have predicted the fall out from the Scottish referendum. Besides, even if Labour had won every seat in Scotland, they would still not be able to form a Government today.


What nobody expected was that the collapse in the LibDem support would benefit the Tories to the extent in which it did.

New world order coming.
KevBrads1
08 May 2015 17:46:39


 


 


I really   think you are giving them too much credit  here -I  don't think they are that clever -  I'm pretty sure nobody was more  surprised  than Cameron  when he ended up with a working majority !


Originally Posted by: Bugglesgate 


 


The people to blame for the state of Labour in Scotland is Labour. They took the Scots for granted by giving them devolution that was suppose to lance the SNP boil, thinking Scotland will always vote Labour and having a bunch of second stringers in charge of it all.


Arrogance, ignorance and taking for granted Scotland has cost Labour dearly.

MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists
Retron
08 May 2015 17:52:53

One of the first things the ConDem coalition did when they got in was tinker with the rules to make getting rid of them harder - and making sure they stayed in power for 5 years. It left a bit of a nasty taste in the mouth for me.

Again, the Tories are at it straight away.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11593496/New-Commons-boundaries-top-Conservative-government-agenda.html

"Redrawing constituency boundaries to lock Labour out of power for a decades (sic) is at the top of the agenda for the new Conservative government, senior Tories have said."

I can think of many priorities, but tinkering with the boundaries to "lock Labour out for decades" isn't one of them.

"Giving new powers to the police and security services to monitor electronic communications -- dubbed the “snooper’s charter” by critics -- will also be high on the Tory agenda. Abolishing the Human Rights Act and implementing a British Bill of Rights is also on the list. "

Translation: "We want everyone to use encryption all the time so we can't snoop on them" and "We know the HRA isn't popular, but we're bound under EU law to implement most of it so we'll just create a similarly-themed Bill of Rights in the hope that nobody will notice". Hoorah for politics!

Leysdown, north Kent
The Beast from the East
08 May 2015 17:53:27


 


The "plebs" have not listened to the message:


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Yesterday when you thought you had lost, you were dissing the thick voters as well!


Its all a bit different now isnt it?


Anyway, just had an interesting conversation with two of my pub geezers. They voted Tory but were not celebrating. They thought they were voting for a continuation of the Coalition. They were worried about the Tories governing alone - "They can do as they like now".


 

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
08 May 2015 17:57:18


Quite! Nobody could have predicted the fall out from the Scottish referendum. Besides, even if Labour had won every seat in Scotland, they would still not be able to form a Government today.


What nobody expected was that the collapse in the LibDem support would benefit the Tories to the extent in which it did.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

I'm not sure the LibDems lost out to the Conservatives.  I think they lost out to UKIP.  The biggest problem as I see it, is that Labour and Conservative are no longer so left and right.  They seem to be converging their politics.  I think the LibDem's growing support over the years, albeit steady, had been a shout for something different but the supporters were sold down the river with the coalition and jumped ship to UKIP.

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
The Beast from the East
08 May 2015 17:58:16


 


Quite! Nobody could have predicted the fall out from the Scottish referendum. Besides, even if Labour had won every seat in Scotland, they would still not be able to form a Government today.


What nobody expected was that the collapse in the LibDem support would benefit the Tories to the extent in which it did.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


I expected it back in 2010. If two parties merge,  only one survives. The liberals have literally been consumed, digested and shat out


The only problem for Dave now, is that without his fag Nick to hide behind, he has to take all the blame for unpopular polices himself


 

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
chichesterweatherfan
08 May 2015 17:59:06


The biggest joke was Cameron bullshitting on this morning about wanting to be a one nation Tory and to work for our United Kingdom.


I realise the Tories are shameless.  I realise they have cannibalised their bedfellows the Lib Dems in the pursuit of power.  They strategized to unleash the nationalist beast in Scotland via the referendum and knowing where the end game of that play would leave Labour, again, all about power and nothing to do with the lies Cameron was spewing this morning.


Personally financially I will be better off this morning under a new Tory administration IF they keep to their bribes from the election period.


But I voted to support the more vulnerable members of our society for whom I now genuinely fear in a Tory government with out the sanitizing influence of the now cannibalised Lib Dems.


 


A sad day and a worrying future for Britain.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


whether Idle...very well put...agree 100%

Whether Idle
08 May 2015 18:06:13


 


Quite! Nobody could have predicted the fall out from the Scottish referendum. Besides, even if Labour had won every seat in Scotland, they would still not be able to form a Government today.


What nobody expected was that the collapse in the LibDem support would benefit the Tories to the extent in which it did.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Im sure behind closed doors that theirs was a 2 pronged strategy for the election of merciless targeting of Lib dem seats and talking up the anti Scottish rhetoric knowing it would add fire to the Scot's determination to be "strong" and smash all  and sundry -conveniently Labour.


 


I am not disputing that Labour were uninspiring and on that basis I m not sure their message deserved victory.  Milliband has obvious weaknesses as a leader (or did have), but it was Cameron's lies this morning that grated and need to be pointed out.

Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
The Beast from the East
08 May 2015 18:07:06

My man tells me that Tristrum is about to declare his intentions, as very much the Blairite candidate. He wants to get in before Chuka makes his announcement.


Andy Burnham will definately stand.  Rachel will stick to the childcare. Not sure about Yvette. I think she missed her chance last time


 

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Maunder Minimum
08 May 2015 18:10:53


 


Yesterday when you thought you had lost, you were dissing the thick voters as well!


Its all a bit different now isnt it?


Anyway, just had an interesting conversation with two of my pub geezers. They voted Tory but were not celebrating. They thought they were voting for a continuation of the Coalition. They were worried about the Tories governing alone - "They can do as they like now".


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Yes, I gave too much credence to the opinion polls and not enough to the good sense of the voters.


As for voting for the coalition - it was not on the ballot paper unfortunately and I did think it odd when papers like the FT, the Economist and The Independent came out in favour of it, since there is no way of voting for it.


When it comes to the result, I repeatedly said that I could detect no enthusiasm for Labour - normally an opposition party about to be elected, has an enthusiastic following in the streets. But I saw no Labour posters in the windows or Labour people out in the streets pressing the flesh and selling their wares. I did think Miliband could end up in Number Ten by mistake, particularly given the useless Tory election campaign, but when all was said and done people voted for the more competent party.


Labour has a problem as we have discussed - the English want aspirational politics, they want opportunity, they are not enthused by high taxes and redistribution, they want the chance to prosper themselves and don't hate the wealthy. Having a platform to clobber the rich may go down well with Labour Party activists, but it doesn't go down well with Middle England, who rather than clobbering the rich, want to be wealthy too.


Scotland is a different matter. As Nick suggested, Labour had better make Scottish Labour a wholly separate and independent party designed to appeal to the Scottish voter, just as the Sun supported the Tories in England and the SNP in Scotland.


Instead of blaming everyone else, Labour should reflect on itself and its own message - Blairism is a winning formula in England, whereas Brownism (of which Milibandism was a derivitive) is not.

New world order coming.
Whether Idle
08 May 2015 18:14:23


One of the first things the ConDem coalition did when they got in was tinker with the rules to make getting rid of them harder - and making sure they stayed in power for 5 years. It left a bit of a nasty taste in the mouth for me.

Again, the Tories are at it straight away.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11593496/New-Commons-boundaries-top-Conservative-government-agenda.html

"Redrawing constituency boundaries to lock Labour out of power for a decades (sic) is at the top of the agenda for the new Conservative government, senior Tories have said."

I can think of many priorities, but tinkering with the boundaries to "lock Labour out for decades" isn't one of them.

"Giving new powers to the police and security services to monitor electronic communications -- dubbed the “snooper’s charter” by critics -- will also be high on the Tory agenda. Abolishing the Human Rights Act and implementing a British Bill of Rights is also on the list. "

Translation: "We want everyone to use encryption all the time so we can't snoop on them" and "We know the HRA isn't popular, but we're bound under EU law to implement most of it so we'll just create a similarly-themed Bill of Rights in the hope that nobody will notice". Hoorah for politics!


Originally Posted by: Retron 


As I say.  Pursuit of power at any cost.  Awful people, they will get their comeuppance though.

Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
The Beast from the East
08 May 2015 18:17:27


 


Im sure behind closed doors that theirs was a 2 pronged strategy for the election of merciless targeting of Lib dem seats and talking up the anti Scottish rhetoric knowing it would add fire to the Scot's determination to be "strong" and smash all  and sundry -conveniently Labour.


 


I am not disputing that Labour were uninspiring and on that basis I m not sure their message deserved victory.  Milliband has obvious weaknesses as a leader (or did have), but it was Cameron's lies this morning that grated and need to be pointed out.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


I agree. The Tories ran the most despicable campaign I have ever seen, deliberately stoking English nationalism.


I said many months ago, when it became clear than Labour would get wiped out in Scotland, they should have moved to resolve the West Lothian question. They should have agreed with the Tories on a constitutional agreement and stop Scottish MPs voting on English issues. That would have totally resolved the SNP issue.


However, I think it was the economy that mostly swung the vote, not fear of the Jocks


I knew the writing was on the wall last year, when a friend of mine who is a lifelong Labour voter told me that she would vote for someone else, because she didnt want Ed Balls as Chancellor. But the opinion polls kept saying Labour could win, and many people like me fell for it because that is what we wanted to happen. Its a bit like cherry picking the best weather charts and ignoring the models that dont show the Easterly!


 

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
doctormog
08 May 2015 18:23:36
Here's how the Council results are looking so far (and it legally reflects the GE picture). It is unusual for an incumbent party to do so well in local elections as far as I am aware.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results/councils 

There must be an awful lot of evil, stupid, naive and selfish voters out there eh?
Aberdeen
Current conditions (personal WS) 
The Beast from the East
08 May 2015 18:25:38


 


 


When it comes to the result, I repeatedly said that I could detect no enthusiasm for Labour - normally an opposition party about to be elected, has an enthusiastic following in the streets. But I saw no Labour posters in the windows or Labour people out in the streets pressing the flesh and selling their wares. I did think Miliband could end up in Number Ten by mistake, particularly given the useless Tory election campaign, but when all was said and done people voted for the more competent party.


Labour has a problem as we have discussed - the English want aspirational politics, they want opportunity, they are not enthused by high taxes and redistribution, they want the chance to prosper themselves and don't hate the wealthy. Having a platform to clobber the rich may go down well with Labour Party activists, but it doesn't go down well with Middle England, who rather than clobbering the rich, want to be wealthy too.


Scotland is a different matter. As Nick suggested, Labour had better make Scottish Labour a wholly separate and independent party designed to appeal to the Scottish voter, just as the Sun supported the Tories in England and the SNP in Scotland.


Instead of blaming everyone else, Labour should reflect on itself and its own message - Blairism is a winning formula in England, whereas Brownism (of which Milibandism was a derivitive) is not.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


On this we can agree for a change!


I think England can only be won from the Centre. An SNP style party could never win here, even though I would personally like to see more radicalism, it makes you unelectable in England.


Thats why Labour needs to go for a centrist pro-business candidate with TV appeal and some Hollywood startdust. That could be Chuka. He will also get an easier ride from the Right wing press because of his background and the romance of being the first black party leader


But I think Burnham is the better all round candidate though.


 

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
08 May 2015 18:27:29

Here's how the Council results are looking so far (and it legally reflects the GE picture). It is unusual for an incumbent party to do so well in local elections as far as I am aware.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results/councils

There must be an awful lot of evil, stupid, naive and selfish voters out there eh?

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


It defies logic!


Are we living in North Korea? Have the votes actually been counted properly!


I cannot believe the Tories have done so well


 

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Brian Gaze
08 May 2015 18:32:16


 


On this we can agree for a change!


I think England can only be won from the Centre. An SNP style party could never win here, even though I would personally like to see more radicalism, it makes you unelectable in England.


Thats why Labour needs to go for a centrist pro-business candidate with TV appeal and some Hollywood startdust. That could be Chuka. He will also get an easier ride from the Right wing press because of his background and the romance of being the first black party leader


But I think Burnham is the better all round candidate though.


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


You may be one of those people who enjoy politics for the sake of it and there is nothing wrong with that. However, assuming that isn't the case then what on earth do you see in any of those people you've mentioned? You couldn't a sheet of paper between them and Cameron, so why bother? I'd actually say that Tristram guy is even more vacuous than Dave.

Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
KevBrads1
08 May 2015 18:46:23

Ed Miliband was just not seen as a credible alternative.


30.5% of the vote, worse than Kinnock in 1987 who got 30.8%


Labour's 3rd worst share of the vote at an election since WWII


The stone tablet was a stunt that went too far but to say you were going to put it in Downing St just showed a complete lack of nous.


I'm not saying it solely cost them the election but to me it just emphasise that Miliband was not credible if he thought that was a good idea.

MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists
Matty H
08 May 2015 18:51:33


The biggest joke was Cameron bullshitting on this morning about wanting to be a one nation Tory and to work for our United Kingdom.


I realise the Tories are shameless.  I realise they have cannibalised their bedfellows the Lib Dems in the pursuit of power.  They strategized to unleash the nationalist beast in Scotland via the referendum and knowing where the end game of that play would leave Labour, again, all about power and nothing to do with the lies Cameron was spewing this morning.


Personally financially I will be better off this morning under a new Tory administration IF they keep to their bribes from the election period.


But I voted to support the more vulnerable members of our society for whom I now genuinely fear in a Tory government with out the sanitizing influence of the now cannibalised Lib Dems.


 


A sad day and a worrying future for Britain.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Hilarious  fortunately I'm just as bad a winner as you are a loser. You lost, so LMAO!!

Yate, Nr Bristol
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DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
08 May 2015 19:06:41

One should congratulate the Tories; they have achieved a remarkable victory. I could be more wholehearted in doing so if they had run a campaign based more on hope than on fear. 


Having scared English voters and enraged the Scots by talking up a Labour - SNP coalition, the very success this has engendered in Acotaland means that the issue will come back and bite them on the bum. 


I hope also that someone is keeping a record of the daily bribes offered by the Tories during the campaign, so as to quote them back at a suitable future date. We will be bankrupt if less than half of them are put into practice.


 

War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Maunder Minimum
08 May 2015 19:16:36

Russell Brand finally grasps democracy…


“The only conclusion I can draw from this is…a lot of people want the Conservatives in power, because they voted for them”


 

New world order coming.
David M Porter
08 May 2015 19:18:34


 


 


The people to blame for the state of Labour in Scotland is Labour. They took the Scots for granted by giving them devolution that was suppose to lance the SNP boil, thinking Scotland will always vote Labour and having a bunch of second stringers in charge of it all.


Arrogance, ignorance and taking for granted Scotland has cost Labour dearly.


Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 


I have to agree, Kevin.


As you have suggested, Labour got complacent in Scotland big time. I reckon they got it into their heads that, having won three big majorities in Westminster in 1997, 2001 and 2005 plus gaining the most Scottish Parliament seats in the first two Scottish elections in 1999 and 2003 (when they were in coalition with the Lib Dems in Edinburgh), they thought that Scotland would always stick by Labour even if England didn't. Also, they clearly never catered for a huge rise in SNP support like we have seen since the back end of the last decade, but even more so since they won a majority in the last Scottish Parliament election in 2011. That was when the alarm bells really began sounding for Labour in Scotland.


As for the constitutional question, as I have said before, federalism is the only way forward if the UK is going to remain as we know it in the long run. Otherwise, I now very strongly believe that it will be a case of when, not if, Scotland leaves the UK.

Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Charmhills
08 May 2015 19:21:19

Here's how the Council results are looking so far (and it legally reflects the GE picture). It is unusual for an incumbent party to do so well in local elections as far as I am aware.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results/councils

There must be an awful lot of evil, stupid, naive and selfish voters out there eh?

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Yes, the British people are stupid/evil and all nasty Tories awful!

Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Charmhills
08 May 2015 19:26:15


 


It defies logic!


Are we living in North Korea? Have the votes actually been counted properly!


I cannot believe the Tories have done so well


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
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