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Gooner
Monday, December 9, 2013 10:37:42 PM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120918/gfsnh-0-240.png?18


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120918/gfsnh-1-240.png?18


similar to ECM


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Quantum
Monday, December 9, 2013 10:49:03 PM


Not in any of the right ways. No height rises over Eurasia or E europe, jet stream is flat aswell. Unfortunately that GFS run is unexciting imo. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Russwirral
Monday, December 9, 2013 10:52:31 PM
http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20131209/18/348/h850t850eu.png 

trend for a change continues... this one would bring a very interesting xmas eve. Certainly something to look for on tomorrows run.

lovely
Phil G
Monday, December 9, 2013 10:57:04 PM
Still some time away but charts suggesting a huge block out to the north east with possible slider lows
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3481.png 
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3841.png 
vince
Monday, December 9, 2013 11:21:42 PM


 


be gone in the morning ECM is one massive tease artist


forget about snow this winter south of Newcastle . the curse of summer cursers has arrived

Hungry Tiger
Monday, December 9, 2013 11:22:23 PM

Still some time away but charts suggesting a huge block out to the north east with possible slider lows
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3481.png
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3841.png


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


Something to think about there.



 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


vince
Monday, December 9, 2013 11:23:55 PM


Not entirely relevant, but does anyone remember the year and month where the mother of all cold spells was forecast 48 hours out with -15 uppers across the country, which diminished to nothing? 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


 


Feb 2008 or was it 2007 ? mahoosive  24hr GFS turnaround , Samaritans grabbing large overtime

Hungry Tiger
Monday, December 9, 2013 11:31:59 PM



Not entirely relevant, but does anyone remember the year and month where the mother of all cold spells was forecast 48 hours out with -15 uppers across the country, which diminished to nothing? 


Originally Posted by: vince 


 


Feb 2008 or was it 2007 ? mahoosive  24hr GFS turnaround , Samaritans grabbing large overtime


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


It was more recent than that - much more recent.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Russwirral
Monday, December 9, 2013 11:39:40 PM




Not entirely relevant, but does anyone remember the year and month where the mother of all cold spells was forecast 48 hours out with -15 uppers across the country, which diminished to nothing? 


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


 


Feb 2008 or was it 2007 ? mahoosive  24hr GFS turnaround , Samaritans grabbing large overtime


Originally Posted by: vince 


It was more recent than that - much more recent.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


 


it was a year ago (pretty much to the date) ...even the met got caught out... cold ended up sitting just off to our east 


LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
Monday, December 9, 2013 11:40:47 PM
Must I say This About The GFS 18z Run - It really does Develop Winter High Blocking in E SE Greenland and to our NNW and our NNE farther out from the UK, on the W and Central and NW Atlantic Cold PV Low Pressure often builds and does turn us in the UK colder in behind The Troughs that cross the UK, more likely affecting us as from next Sunday onwards, and even for a time this athursday in West UK.

In the Week after this Weekend and 6 days after that Week ending Friday, the Blocking High vs the North Atlantic PV Low's is what GFS 18z is really cracking up on right now, it shows High Preesure build in Central and East to also N Europe as well and over E Greenland plus the West norwegian Sea and the Arctic to our NE vs the NW and Central N Atlantic Pulses of low pressure's/ Trough's, and with East of UK over N Sea and Central E and N Europe Cold Airmass with High Pressure it could be interesting in Xmas Week for those in Festival Mood.

But I remember just back in Dec in Xmas Week and few days after and Before it that the GFS, ECMWF and the UKMO get very Strange silly long and Mid Range Model Outputs, even 48 hours before, even in First half of January, those Tears, and Years especially in the 18z runs and the 06z runs and it was especially occurred in 2010-11 and 2009-10 in the latter of which We saw much of December bring Very Cold and lots of Snowy Weather.

edited: But there are regular Successes too e.g., when following in 1st half of January's and even in Early February's often as well in whic Short Sudden stratospheric warming events the Mid and Late Jan Weather in UK sees colder spells High Pressure Blocking and Diverted Low Pressures, that come in from the North or East and NE or more likely often from the Atlantic to our West and they get shifted SE to Southern then SE Europe in that track.
Mind a bit of Presentation here has it's ups and downs!.
Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
Quantum
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:35:41 AM





Not entirely relevant, but does anyone remember the year and month where the mother of all cold spells was forecast 48 hours out with -15 uppers across the country, which diminished to nothing? 


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


 


Feb 2008 or was it 2007 ? mahoosive  24hr GFS turnaround , Samaritans grabbing large overtime


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


It was more recent than that - much more recent.


 


Originally Posted by: vince 


 


it was a year ago (pretty much to the date) ...even the met got caught out... cold ended up sitting just off to our east 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Can you give a specific date? Or was it literally the 10th of December, because I checked meteociel archives, they were showing typical 144h downgrades. I wanted to see this epic 24 hour downgrade because its probably more unusual than people think. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Rob K
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:04:31 AM
It was when the Beeb latched on to the "beast from the east" line, wasn't it?

Dec 2012

http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/how-the-pest-from-the-west-will-beat-the-beast-from-the-east/ 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulhudson/posts/the-beast-from-the-east-is-sla 
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Quantum
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:30:55 AM

It was when the Beeb latched on to the "beast from the east" line, wasn't it?

Dec 2012

http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/how-the-pest-from-the-west-will-beat-the-beast-from-the-east/

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

">http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulhudson/posts/the-beast-from-the-east-is-sla


Nice link, don't get me wrong; but I'm sure this isn't the one I am thinking about. It might have even been in 2007. But I remember that -15C uppers were progged over the UK 36 hours away and it all collapsed. The one last year was frustrating but all of the cold and snow was stuck well beyond 144h. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Retron
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 3:38:39 AM


Nice link, don't get me wrong; but I'm sure this isn't the one I am thinking about. It might have even been in 2007. But I remember that -15C uppers were progged over the UK 36 hours away and it all collapsed. The one last year was frustrating but all of the cold and snow was stuck well beyond 144h. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


There have been two such events in relatively recent times. One was last year when "that ECM" (as they call it on NetWeather) showed deep cold as close as 96 hours out, it then flipped and the other models also flipped.


Then there was the one back in 2008 or so when the models similarly flipped around 96 hours out.


Both cases involved a potential easterly and in both cases the entire ensemble suites flipped along with the operationals.


Leysdown, north Kent
Snow Hoper
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:44:03 AM



Nice link, don't get me wrong; but I'm sure this isn't the one I am thinking about. It might have even been in 2007. But I remember that -15C uppers were progged over the UK 36 hours away and it all collapsed. The one last year was frustrating but all of the cold and snow was stuck well beyond 144h. 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


There have been two such events in relatively recent times. One was last year when "that ECM" (as they call it on NetWeather) showed deep cold as close as 96 hours out, it then flipped and the other models also flipped.


Then there was the one back in 2008 or so when the models similarly flipped around 96 hours out.


Both cases involved a potential easterly and in both cases the entire ensemble suites flipped along with the operationals.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


 


For the latter one, if memory serves me correctly, one or two ensemble members on the GFS were, as we'd normally put it, 'outliers' well and truely, and at quite a close time scale. Then, all of a sudden, the whole lot flipped with them. I think a current/previous member had a screen shot of it as their profile picture sometime ago. Can't think who though


Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
Retron
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 6:35:26 AM


For the latter one, if memory serves me correctly, one or two ensemble members on the GFS were, as we'd normally put it, 'outliers' well and truely, and at quite a close time scale. Then, all of a sudden, the whole lot flipped with them. I think a current/previous member had a screen shot of it as their profile picture sometime ago. Can't think who though


Originally Posted by: Snow Hoper 


The outlier thing happened in both cases - the screenshot you're thinking of was from the older event rather than last year's one.


 


Leysdown, north Kent
Retron
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:00:56 AM
Just checked the 15-day ECM control run from yesterday - zonal sums it up. The 32-day ECM control run from last night is pretty similar, showing the Atlantic breaking through in 7 days and from then until early January it's just generally unsettled with low pressure never far from the NW. There's a brief toppler a few days into January but after that collapses it's back to more unsettled and zonal conditions.

Very uninspiring TBH!
Leysdown, north Kent
nsrobins
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:21:18 AM

And the Lone Ranger prize for rank outlier this morning goes to:



http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gens-3-1-348.png?0


GFS 00Z ENS Pert #3 (The White Christmas Run)


Blink and you'll miss it LOL.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gooner
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:34:34 AM


And the Lone Ranger prize for rank outlier this morning goes to:



http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gens-3-1-348.png?0


GFS 00Z ENS Pert #3 (The White Christmas Run)


Blink and you'll miss it LOL.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-20-1-300.png?0


Brief NEly just before Xmas


crumbs of no comfort


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


GIBBY
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 8:26:22 AM

Good morning. Here is the report on the midnight outputs of GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Tuesday December 9th 2013.


All models show a mild Southerly flow over the UK between High pressure over Southeast Europe and Low pressure over the mid Atlantic. The mildest conditions are shown towards the NW where Southerly breezes will be at their strongest with a little rain at times. In the SE drier continental air may filter across over the next 24-48 hurs bringing slightly less mild air and a greater risk of mist and fog overnight for a time. However, by the end of the week and into the weekend troughs make more progress across the UK bringing at least a short spell of rain and stronger winds for all before things dry up and settled down somewhat again over the second half of the weekend as High pressure is shown to build back North to some degree from the South.


GFS then shows a very mobile pattern next week and on until Christmas with the details irrelevant. With a train of Low pressure crossing quickly over or just to the North all areas can expect wind and rain and there will be quite a lot at times on Western upslopes. Winds will often be strong but always from a mild SW'ly direction continuing the no risk of wintry weather going for all areas.


UKMO today shows a return to this weeks synoptics early next week with High pressure refusing to move away from NW Europe with Low pressure out to the NW with a broad and very mild SW flow carrying rain at times to Northern and Western areas while the South and East maintain a lot of dry weather.


GEM today continues it's trend from yesterday with mild SW winds blowing strongly across all areas next week. Troughs and smal depressions in the flow will move rapidly NE over the North at times with some fast moving spells for all with the heaviest rain as usual towards the north and West with some drier interludes more likely towards the SE.


NAVGEM this morning holds the main thrust of Low pressure further to the NW and as a result High pressure remains close to the South and SE and although a few weak troughs deliver a little rain in the South at times the main share of Atlantic rain will be across the NW with mild conditions persisting everywhere.


ECM shows the weather becoming more deeply unsettled and often wet through the middle and end of next week with Low pressure troughs digging South across the UK delivering spells of rain and showers in blustery and mild SW winds. Things are shown to feel less mild later as winds switch more towards the West or even a little north of West at times when showery interludes could include a little wintriness over Northern hills.


The GFS Ensembles today show a few more dry days before things steadily turn more unsettled and often wet in the North and West but less so in the SE. This pattern is very indicative of a normal winter pattern of deep Low pressure to the NW and High to the SE with troughs crossing NE over all areas at times, most active towards the NW. Upper temperatures will fall off from current levels to nearer average ones later but at the surface some very mild days could be enjoyed in the SE Especially and to the lee of high ground in the NE. There looks absolutely no sign of anything remotely wintry from any ensemble member other than the odd one or two this morning.


The Jet Stream maintains it's trend to sink SE over the next few days to be running still in a NE direction across the Atlantic but this time over the UK allowing Atlantic lows and fronts to make deeper inroads into the UK. The trajectory though remains totally unbeneficial for getting any sort of cold anywhere near the UK due to persistent High pressure over SE Europe.


In Summary the trend towards more unsettled but still very mild weather is gathering some pace this morning. However, it looks unlikely that the SE will see too much in the way of rain but the North and West could become quite wet at times. Winds will also become more of a feature for all areas, blowing from the SW strongly at times with gales or severe gales in places and maintaining temperatures average or above for all. As we move inexorably towards Christmas, day by day the chances of anything Wintry over the UK on the big day look distinctly remote from today's trend and synopses endorsed further by the latest 10 day ECM Ensemble chart.


ECM 10 Day Mean Chart


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Jiries
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:23:31 AM

 


Just checked the 15-day ECM control run from yesterday - zonal sums it up. The 32-day ECM control run from last night is pretty similar, showing the Atlantic breaking through in 7 days and from then until early January it's just generally unsettled with low pressure never far from the NW. There's a brief toppler a few days into January but after that collapses it's back to more unsettled and zonal conditions.

Very uninspiring TBH!

Originally Posted by: Retron 


Look like UK will miss any cold action hile severe cold take hold in N America and very cold weather for E Med regions this coming week which I will be watching very closely. 

roger63
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:58:32 AM



And the Lone Ranger prize for rank outlier this morning goes to:



http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gens-3-1-348.png?0


GFS 00Z ENS Pert #3 (The White Christmas Run)


Blink and you'll miss it LOL.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-20-1-300.png?0


Brief NEly just before Xmas


crumbs of no comfort


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Have looked at the GEFS 0h ensembles.Now Xmas is in range (360H) albeit in FI thought it worth tracking the types of  Xmas day circulation types thrown up by the 20 ensembles.So starting today the  spilit is Zonal W/SW 13(65%),Anticyclonic NE/E/SE 7(35%).


The Anticyclonic ens are 2,3,8,10,11,16,20.


 

AJ*
  • AJ*
  • Advanced Member
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:15:44 AM



For the latter one, if memory serves me correctly, one or two ensemble members on the GFS were, as we'd normally put it, 'outliers' well and truely, and at quite a close time scale. Then, all of a sudden, the whole lot flipped with them. I think a current/previous member had a screen shot of it as their profile picture sometime ago. Can't think who though


Originally Posted by: Retron 


The outlier thing happened in both cases - the screenshot you're thinking of was from the older event rather than last year's one.


 


Originally Posted by: Snow Hoper 


I saved a copy of the screen extract used as a profile picture, and I'll try to work out how to post it.  In case I can't post it, the date was Mon 9 Feb 2009, the 18Z run.  The ensemble mean 850 temps weren't shown as dropping as far as -15, but at T+12 dropped to between -5 and -10 and then were shown staying there for a couple of weeks.  Then in the real world it didn't happen.


Angus


Edit: try this


 


 


Angus; one of the Kent crew on TWO.
Tonbridge, 40m (131ft) asl
Rob K
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:26:32 AM
According to Joe B on twitter, snow cover over the continental US is close to record highs for the time if year, almost two thirds of the nation has snow cover. Not much hope of cold here when America is so cold.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Gandalf The White
Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:28:46 AM

According to Joe B on twitter, snow cover over the continental US is close to record highs for the time if year, almost two thirds of the nation has snow cover. Not much hope of cold here when America is so cold.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Why?


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


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