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LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
29 December 2013 18:24:07
Third Assesment this one for UKMO 12 GB.

Next 24 hours both mild and cold air mass play in Trough- Low short wave across many S C and E and NE parts- Sunday Night and Monday- and to our West and NW PV Central Low Cyclonic flow.

On Tuesday out goes Monday's trough and in comes the Main Eastern N Atlantic Low with A trough move in - Wet and a period of Strong winds, the the SW wind veers West and showers with hail and sleet or snow over the high hills/ ground- rain showers for many in the South and SE, turning cool to cold, after a mild wet windy morning and Midday.

Then The PV Low Intensifies and UK will see very strong Gales especially Central W and the South and N to W and well, a Trough with Main Low brings long periods of heavy rain lasting a couple of hours and this in late Morning to early Afternoon lash across much of the UK Mainland.

Turning more showery later on day- and temperatures will drop down.
Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
Essan
29 December 2013 18:32:12



Good point there, Peter. As someone else said earlier, the most famous really cold spells of the last 20-30 years have tended to come after Xmas and New Year (Jan 1987 & Feb 1991 for example) rather than before it. The month long severe spell that commenced just before the end of November 2010 was very much the exception to the rule in this sense.


Originally Posted by: DEW 


It's traditional "As the days grow longer / So the cold gets stronger"


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


On the other hand, Spring is starting earlier and earlier and on average seems to arrive around mid February these days .....  Last year was the exception to the rule.


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Quantum
29 December 2013 18:41:52

The AO is going to shoot down over the coming weeks if the ECM is anything to go by. Its a real shame that we don't seem to be benefiting from this, as the atlantic remains as active as ever. Subtle signs now, of that cold pool over canada starting to become a little frail... combined with the arctic high could lead to a cold spell well down the line.


 


EDIT: Spoke too soon, by 216 another cold shot in canada.


Looks bleak.  


 


The dreaded baffin beast, hated as much as the euroslug.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122912/ECH1-240.GIF?29-0


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
GIBBY
29 December 2013 19:17:43

Good evening. Here is my latest analysis of the 12 noon outputs from the NWP for today Sunday December 29th 2013.


All models show an active frontal system crossing the UK overnight with rain and strong winds already over the far West moving across all areas by midnight or soon after. Tomorrow will see the front clear SE England through the day followed by less windy and quite bright conditions with just a few showers over hills and coasts in the West. Then on Tuesday another disturbance will run across from the South-West with further heavy rain and strong winds followed by showers with New Years Day following a similar pattern to that of New Years Eve. On Thursday rather colder and still breezy conditions will be present over all areas with a mix of sunshine and showers, heavy and thundery in places and falling as snow on hills in the North.


GFS then leads us into next weekend with gales and heavy rain followed by colder weather with sunshine and showers in a blustery NW flow before the whole pattern resets early next week with further strong winds and rain for all. For a time the heaviest rain will transfer North to affect Scotland and Northern England with SW areas becoming drier though windy for a day or two before very unsettled weather returns to all areas before the end of the run.


UKMO tonight closes it's run next Saturday with a very disturbed pattern across the British Isles with deep depressions crossing over and close to the North ensuring next weekend stays wet and occasionally windy and rather cold in the North with snow showers on the hills.


GEM remains resolutely unsettled at the latter stages of it's run with Low pressure persistent to the North and a strong Westerly wind carrying rain and showers across all areas with snow on Northern hills at times and temperatures generally close to average.


NAVGEM tonight is also very disturbed next weekend with Low pressure clearing away East only to make way for another deep one close to the NW with strong and blustery winds coupled with periods of rain and showers from fast moving troughs the ongoing outcome.


ECM is broadly similar with a window of fine conditions next Sunday not unlike today's as a brief ridge passes over but as always of late it doesn't last and by the start of the new week very deep Low pressure out to the NW sends strong winds and rain NE across all areas followed by windy and showery conditions. At the end of the run a window of potentially much colder and drier period looks possible as the Low pressure slips SE over the UK followed by a building ridge of High pressure with NE winds for a time with wintry showers for all areas and frost at night.


The GFS Ensembles still show no definitive trend towards anything other than what we have received over the last couple of weeks with powerful depressions keeping the mobile and sometimes stormy weather pattern going with just short gasps of polar maritime air on the rear end of exiting depressions before the next one comes along. The net result is for the mean average for the set staying close to the long term mean.


The Jet Stream keeps pushing relentlessly strong across the Atlantic towards Northern France or the UK throughout the period on show tonight.


In Summary tonight the pattern remains very unsettled and potentially stormy at times. There will be copious amounts of rain for all areas over the next few weeks with no area immune. With only short drier and somewhat colder periods on offer under transient ridges, and with ECM possibly offering up something more sustained for a time in 10 days or so it's not all gloom and doom. However, there is a lot of water to pass under the bridge before any such changes could occur and we must continue to wait for more definitive and cross model agreement on any changes shown in the longer term before we can begin to believe that a change of pattern is about to happen soon.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
KevBrads1
29 December 2013 19:37:05

The AO is going to shoot down over the coming weeks if the ECM is anything to go by. Its a real shame that we don't seem to be benefiting from this, as the atlantic remains as active as ever. Subtle signs now, of that cold pool over canada starting to become a little frail... combined with the arctic high could lead to a cold spell well down the line.

EDIT: Spoke too soon, by 216 another cold shot in canada.
Looks bleak.

The dreaded baffin beast, hated as much as the euroslug.
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122912/ECH1-240.GIF?29-0 

Originally Posted by: Quantum 




Very cold air coming off Canada can sometimes gives us wintry weather as it did during January 1984 and March 1995. It depends on the angle of the jet.
MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
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Hungry Tiger
29 December 2013 19:43:32

The AO is going to shoot down over the coming weeks if the ECM is anything to go by. Its a real shame that we don't seem to be benefiting from this, as the atlantic remains as active as ever. Subtle signs now, of that cold pool over canada starting to become a little frail... combined with the arctic high could lead to a cold spell well down the line. EDIT: Spoke too soon, by 216 another cold shot in canada. Looks bleak. The dreaded baffin beast, hated as much as the euroslug. http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122912/ECH1-240.GIF?29-0 

Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 

Very cold air coming off Canada can sometimes gives us wintry weather as it did during January 1984 and March 1995. It depends on the angle of the jet.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


 



I was wondering whether we might see a January 1984 repeat.


Amazing that is now 30 years ago.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Quantum
29 December 2013 19:47:24

SSW event on the NAVGEM, I'm starting to get interested



Makes the warming on the GFS look quaint. 


JMA incidently has a much more pronoucned warming event at 10hpa than the GFS (though not a SSW yet)


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Ally Pally Snowman
29 December 2013 19:55:09

SSW event on the NAVGEM, I'm starting to get interested
UserPostedImage
Makes the warming on the GFS look quaint.
JMA incidently has a much more pronoucned warming event at 10hpa than the GFS (though not a SSW yet)

Originally Posted by: Quantum 





Indeed WOW! If correct we might get some much colder weather by mid Jan.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma.php?ech=192&mode=4 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgeme_cartes.php?&ech=180&mode=7&carte=1 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
David M Porter
29 December 2013 21:21:02


The AO is going to shoot down over the coming weeks if the ECM is anything to go by. Its a real shame that we don't seem to be benefiting from this, as the atlantic remains as active as ever. Subtle signs now, of that cold pool over canada starting to become a little frail... combined with the arctic high could lead to a cold spell well down the line. EDIT: Spoke too soon, by 216 another cold shot in canada. Looks bleak. The dreaded baffin beast, hated as much as the euroslug. http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122912/ECH1-240.GIF?29-0 

Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 

Very cold air coming off Canada can sometimes gives us wintry weather as it did during January 1984 and March 1995. It depends on the angle of the jet.


Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 


 



I was wondering whether we might see a January 1984 repeat.


Amazing that is now 30 years ago.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


I don't recall January 1984 unfortunately but I clearly remember the snowy March of 1995. I think we had more snow where I live during March 1995 than we had through the entire proper winter period from December of 1994 through to the end of February 1995.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
nickl
29 December 2013 21:45:48


SSW event on the NAVGEM, I'm starting to get interested



Makes the warming on the GFS look quaint. 


JMA incidently has a much more pronoucned warming event at 10hpa than the GFS (though not a SSW yet)


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


its clear that the NAVGEM strat forecast must think its april already. as for the jma over the asian side - just a bit over  enthusiastic but not a million miles away from reality. stick with gfs and ecm for the strat i think. ecm should be much better than the other models as it has far more horizontal levels up there.

Brendon Hills Bandit
29 December 2013 21:57:26
Will be interesting to see if the official TWO winter forecast is approx. correct. IIRC, it predicts a cold but dry spell mid-Jan, and a cold & snowier spell mid-Feb. IIRC, the TWO winter forecast is usually not bad.
220m asl, edge of Brendon Hills
Gooner
29 December 2013 22:26:08


SSW event on the NAVGEM, I'm starting to get interested



Makes the warming on the GFS look quaint. 


JMA incidently has a much more pronoucned warming event at 10hpa than the GFS (though not a SSW yet)


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgem/runs/2013122912/navgemnh-7-180.png?29-17


Indeed , clearly this is what the Met must be seeing , with their very very slight hint of colder weather


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


nsrobins
29 December 2013 22:47:38

Another day, another series of op runs showing unrelenting wind and rain.

The discussion of strat warmings should continue, if only to furnish this thread with some optimism for a break from the zonal train.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gooner
29 December 2013 22:50:24


Another day, another series of op runs showing unrelenting wind and rain.

The discussion of strat warmings should continue, if only to furnish this thread with some optimism for a break from the zonal train.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Should really be saying wind and occasional wintry conditions Neil


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013122918/gfsnh-0-300.png?18


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013122918/gfsnh-0-312.png?18



 


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Zubzero
29 December 2013 22:50:27

No end in sight http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013122918/gfsnh-0-384.png?18 


The ECM mean at 240 is a bit more promising http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122912/EDH1-240.GIF?29-0


But the zonal train dont show many signs atm of running out of steam.

Zubzero
29 December 2013 23:00:37

Even the strat warming not there as much on the 18z


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013122918/gfsnh-10-384.png?18


Tho my strat knowledge = the more orange and red the better 

nsrobins
29 December 2013 23:36:12

http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/Data/PLUIM_06260_NWT.png



Not too inspiring is it?


 


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
David M Porter
29 December 2013 23:39:39


Even the strat warming not there as much on the 18z


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013122918/gfsnh-10-384.png?18


Tho my strat knowledge = the more orange and red the better 


Originally Posted by: Zubzero 


Very early days yet, I think. I seem to recall someone commenting last winter that sometimes when strat warming comes into play, it can take a number of days, if not longer, for the models to properly get to grips with it and then reflect it in their output.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Gandalf The White
30 December 2013 00:13:54


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/Data/PLUIM_06260_NWT.png



Not too inspiring is it?


 


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


No it isn't, but the London one looks a little better beyond Day 10:


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html


The concern is that the trend to colder conditions keeps appearing around Day 10 or 11, i.e. it isn't coming forward.  By now it should have been at Day 8.


What is noteworthy is the good agreement of GFS Op, ECM Op and ECM mean for the next 6 days, for temperature and wind and to a lesser extent rain.


Another 60mm in the next week on top of what came down last week.


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Whether Idle
30 December 2013 08:35:45
Charts looking jet stream driven, mobile, wet, windy, Atlantic dominated, zonal. Personally, I don't pay attention to what the strat may or may not do in 384 hours time. I will look at SLP in FI, and the first half of January is still looking very zonal. Air frosts an utter rarity IMBY. Hoping the windiness will result in no further structural damage...
Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
The Beast from the East
30 December 2013 08:47:38

no comments on the ECM?


things looking a little better for coldies this morning. More colder options in the GEFS as well


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gandalf The White
30 December 2013 08:53:36

no comments on the ECM?


things looking a little better for coldies this morning. More colder options in the GEFS as well

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



I didn't think the ECM was showing any change really: we end up with a weakening low pressure over us, very little cold air and a renewed blast from the jet barrelling across the Atlantic.

Edit: just looked at the GEFS and that's also more of the same - 850s hardly below -5C.
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Retron
30 December 2013 08:58:33


no comments on the ECM?


things looking a little better for coldies this morning. More colder options in the GEFS as well


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 



I didn't think the ECM was showing any change really: we end up with a weakening low pressure over us, very little cold air and a renewed blast from the jet barrelling across the Atlantic.

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


It's showing an easterly of sorts setting up, which is quite a change! It's not surprising though as there have consistently been 10-15% of ensemble members showing such an evolution post-day 10.


Both GEFS and ECM-15 show a switch to colder, more seaonal conditions on the 9th - unusual agreement that far out, but largely consistent over the past few runs of both GEFS and ECM-15.


 


 


Leysdown, north Kent
Stormchaser
30 December 2013 09:02:11

ECM disrupts the energy enough that from day 10 a slider low could unfold... so that's of some interest.


However, recent tendencies promote paying little attention to that idea unless it gains support from other models.


 


Rainfall remains a major concern for the south and west in particular, with 70-100mm widely in the coming week across those regions. Eastern parts, especially eastern England, look to escape with relatively low totals:


http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2013123000/192-777UK.GIF?30-0


 


There will also be further strong winds at times, with Wednesday's secondary low looking a bit feisty:


http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2013123000/60-289UK.GIF?30-0


Slightly stronger winds than today's front and across a wider area. There looks to be a large amount of rain on that day too.


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Keep Calm and Forecast On
GIBBY
30 December 2013 09:03:39

Good morning. From yet another morning of wet and windy conditions in the West Country here's this morning's report on the midnight outputs of the NWP for Monday December 30th 2013.


All models show a trough moving steadily East over the UK carrying strong winds and rain with it, clearing Eastern Britain later this afternoon. A lull of light Westerly winds follow with just a few showers before another vigorous trough crosses East overnight with further very gusty winds and showery rain. Tomorrow is then shown with SW winds, strong at times with rain turning showery later. Into 2014 and the weather is shown by all models to look every bit as volatile with further spells of heavy rain and strong winds alternating with somewhat colder interludes with heavy showers, especially near Southern and Western coasts.


GFS then shows next weekend as very unsettled as another vigorous Low pressure trundles East across the heart of the UK with gales and heavy rain at some point on Saturday giving way to colder and showery conditions for a time before on Sunday a new major Atlantic Low sets up another round of strong WSW winds and rain. From then on through Week 2 absolutely no respite is shown with deep Low pressure to the North with strong Westerly winds and showers and longer spells of rain coupled with gales persisting unabated.


UKMO closes it's run next Sunday with a deep and complex Low pressure covering much of the North Atlantic from Newfoundland, Iceland and the UK each affecting the UK with strong winds and very heavy rainfall with flooding becoming a serious issue if these Lows come in with this frequency.


GEM is very similar with the main message being of more severe gales at times with periods of rain sweep in from the West regularly with short showery spells in between. The run ends with a 960mb Low centred close to West Wales with all the attendant problems that would bring if verified.


NAVGEM closes it's run with Low pressure (965mbs) West of Ireland with strong SSW winds and rain from troughs blown quickly North and East on strong SW winds, especially in the South.


ECM today shows little difference although once more Low pressure fills over the UK by Day 10 giving a brief colder spell in 10 days with showers turning wintry for all in lighter North winds. However, with the pressure structure as it is the UK looks to be on the collision course of the next Low pressure exiting Newfoundland by the end of the week as an Atlantic ridge would topple SE over and away from the UK.


The ECM Ensemble Mean at Day 10 indicates troughing still over and to the NW of the UK with higher pressure to the South over Southern Europe and the Azores maintaining unsettled weather with rain at times and hardly indicative of anything other than colder transitory polar maritime incursions at times.


The GFS Ensemble mean remains little changed from those of late with nothing to suggest anything other than a continuation of wet and windy weather for all areas at times in temperatures overall pretty close to average.


The Jet stream continues to be programmed to run powerfully across the Atlantic towards Southern Britain or Northern France throughout this morning's output.


The Summary this morning remains doggedly the same as I have been saying for weeks now and that is the very volatile and sometimes powerful unsettled spell is locked in for the foreseeable future. There will be spells of very strong winds and very heavy rain all too frequently through the period creating more misery for flood prone areas with some wind damage too possible at times. There will be some very short showery interludes when winds fall lighter and at these times it may be briefly colder with some snow showers on the hills, especially in the North. However, temperatures overall will not be troublesome maintaining an overall very average level with only limited chances of slight frost under transient ridges.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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