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KevBrads1
14 November 2014 19:36:53

Looking toastie and will help save money on heating as we enter the core of the "solar winter" from 21 November to 21 January.

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


I would have thought saving money on heating would be more important during the core of the "coldest" part of winter? The coldest part on average is about a month after the solstice.


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Essan
14 November 2014 19:39:06


 


I would have thought saving money on heating would be more important during the core of the "coldest" part of winter? The coldest part on average is about a month after the solstice.


Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 



True, although more people spend more time at home - and thus might need heating on - during the last 10 days of December.  So temperatures then will have the biggest impact in heating bills.


Andy
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Joe Bloggs
14 November 2014 20:04:17

Just scrolled through the ECM and I'm struggling to see this mild, zonal, Atlantic driven shower of hell than everyone seems to be talking about?


Maybe I'm drunk. 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

sizzle
14 November 2014 20:19:40


 


This mild ramping is getting ridiculous....


Originally Posted by: Matty H 

 matty H has spoken take  note  you mild rampers just BORE OFF, laughing lol [ just kidding ]

David M Porter
14 November 2014 20:38:39


Just scrolled through the ECM and I'm struggling to see this mild, zonal, Atlantic driven shower of hell than everyone seems to be talking about?


Maybe I'm drunk. 


Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 


To my eyes, although it has the atlantic eventually winning out, it doesn't seem to be quite a keen on a flat pattern developing as it was in other recent runs, including the 00Z from this morning.


It's not outwith the realms of possibility that the HP to the east might prove to be a bit more resilient than the models currently think- we shall see.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Gooner
14 November 2014 20:56:08


ptb 17 isn't bad. just about the best straw to clutch at!

seriously looks very mild and rainy in the next week or so. Thank goodness it's November and no-one is bothered about winter being over already


Originally Posted by: ITSY 


I certainly wouldn't call it very mild


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



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Medlock Vale Weather
14 November 2014 21:40:16

I think it's safe to say there isn't any notable cold on the horizon. Still it is only November. Winter 46-47 didn't get going until the latter half of January. 


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
JACKO4EVER
14 November 2014 21:45:57


I think it's safe to say there isn't any notable cold on the horizon. Still it is only November. Winter 46-47 didn't get going until the latter half of January. 


Originally Posted by: Medlock Vale Weather 


And winter 2013-14 never got going at all!


LOL


Certainly looking a mild outlook ATM, and it's a bit of a worry about the rainfall totals for some.


 

doctormog
14 November 2014 21:57:13
To be honest, it all looks rather autumnal, Unsettled at times and not overly exciting in terms of temperture either mild or cold. There are a few options showing things a bit colder or warmer but the average of the output is a bit milder than average and decidedly uninteresting.
Brian Gaze
14 November 2014 22:15:04

Slight differences in the temperature forecasts from the GFS Op and parallel on Sunday morning. I suspect the main benefit of the upgrade in this regard will be more accurate temperature forecasts in the south western peninsula and other coastal locations.


 



Brian Gaze
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Stormchaser
14 November 2014 23:42:37

Blimey, the 18z GFS op has not only shifted towards ECM but actually beyond it, to an even more blocked evolution.


Yet the 18z GFSP continues to obliterate all Arctic blocking with intense storm systems.


 


After seeing yet another 10-16 day period packed with vicious lows delivering severe gales, I'm really starting to think that the upgraded model might have some serious issues with overcooking storm systems, much more so than the older version... which is really saying something! 


Obviously I'll be prepared to admit my mis-judgement if we do see multiple severe storms by month's end.


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Medlock Vale Weather
14 November 2014 23:55:37

To be honest, it all looks rather autumnal, Unsettled at times and not overly exciting in terms of temperture either mild or cold. There are a few options showing things a bit colder or warmer but the average of the output is a bit milder than average and decidedly uninteresting.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Pretty much what I thought as well. And at times it is a real mish mash and sometimes wildly different from one run to the next like Stormchaser has eluded to above in his opening paragraph. Think I will take a break from looking at the models for a few days.


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
Whether Idle
15 November 2014 06:23:50
The GFS 0z is another mild fest. Sluggish high to the S and E. Lows to the W. By December were are one of the warmest locations in Europe, bathed in unseasonably warm waters. For some useable cold we need a complete pattern reversal. We will need continental air derived from Siberia.

WI
Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Brian Gaze
15 November 2014 07:46:20

I know we all know the reasons, but it's still a marvel how the yellows and oranges can find the UK! ECM, GFS & GSPP all battling it out in the best pizza slice competition next weekend.


  


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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GIBBY
15 November 2014 08:06:41

HERE IS MY LATEST ANALYSIS FROM THE OUTPUTS OF THE WEATHER COMPUTER PREDICTION MODELS FOR TWO WEEKS FROM 8AM TODAY SATURDAY NOVEMBER 15TH 2014.


NEXT UPDATE SUNDAY NOVEMBER 16TH 08:00


THE CURRENT GENERAL SITUATION. A slack Low pressure lies to the South and west of the UK with light cyclonic airflow across the UK persisting. A slow moving trough remains slow moving over NE Scotland.


MODELS-2 WEEK HEADLINE  Remaining largely unsettled with rain at times, especially in the NW while Southern and Eastern parts become drier and mild at times


THE JET STREAM ENSEMBLE FORECAST The GFS Jet Stream Ensemble forecast shows a very variable pattern over the coming two weeks with a split in the flow developing. One arm is then shown to cross east at high latitudes north of the UK while anorther arm lies to the South. Both arms of the flow interject at times from a ridging and troughing pattern and bows quite strong at times.


GFS OPERATIONAL The GFS operational this morning shows the general shift of synoptics to change from low pressure to the South and West of Britain over the next week to more like Low pressure to the North and West with a slow shift of rain emphasis moving more towards the North and West by next weekend in slack winds generally. In Week 2 High pressure crosses the UK with a fine dry and possibly foggy period before Low pressure returns down over the UK from the Atantic with outbreaks of rain and showers for all once more in near to average temperatures.


THE GFS PARALLEL RUN The GFS Parallel run shows an earlier influence of High pressure from the East and South through next week with dry and fine weatehr arriving from midweek with mist and fog patches at night and patchy frost too in mild South or SE flow by day. Through the second half of the run the pattern of High to the East and SE collapses as Low pressure moves in from the West bringing a return to wet and windy weather in average temperartures to end the run.


THE GFS ENSEMBLES.  The GFS Ensembles show High pressure from the East influential to the UK from midweek for the rest of the run, suitably positioned at first to ptomote dry and fine weather from soon after midweek with a mild Southerly flow. Through Week 2 the orientation of the High to the East changes to allow firstly colder air to spread west over the UK and unsettled weather from low pressure to arrive at the end of the period with cold rain and wind moving up from the South then.


UKMO. UKMO today shows Low pressure to the SW midweek with a band of rain and fresh breezes on Wednesday giving way to benign and dry conditions later in the week as the Low fills leaving a slack SE flow and rather cloudy but dry conditions across the UK in average temperatures.


THE FAX CHARTS  The Fax Charts show a complex structure of filling Low pressure ambling around the UK over the next 72 hours or so before a simplified pattern develops towards midweek as a more defined trough crosses the UK slowly from the West. The weather remains largely unsettled with rain or showers at times through the period in relatively light winds and average temperatures.


GEM  GEM also shows a similar pattern to the rest next week with High pressure to the SE maintaining largely relatively mild conditions with the shift of influence from Atlantic fronts gradually becoming more focused towards Northern and Western Britain while the South and East see less rain and some drier interludes in between.


NAVGEM NAVGEM shows relatyively mild conditions too next week with occasional rain from weakening troughs before it shows a High pressure ridge developing over the South from the SW next weekend.



ECM  ECM this morning shows pressure building steadily next week as with the other models the shift of the Atlantic influence moves more towards the North and West from midweek. Pressure will then become quite high from a belt stretching from the Azores to Europe with a long fetch SW flow developing over the UK and much of Northern Europe keeping any threat of cold air a long way from the UK and keeping relatively dry and benign conditions over the South and East of the UK with time.


THE ECM ENSEMBLES   Not issued at time of publication of this report.


NOTABLE TREND CHANGES FROM PREVIOUS RUNS The trend continues to grow towards rising pressure to the East and South of the UK with the rain and wind influence becoming most prolific to the North and West of the UK rather than elsewhere.


MY THOUGHTS   The models are now settling on a theme of keeping cold away from the UK as rising pressure to the South and East of the UK becomes dominant from soon after the middle of the coming week. While this news will not be welcome to those looking for something cold and wintry it will be very good news for those saturated areas that lie across western britain currently as it looks as though once we move out of the midweek period there will be much less rainfall for those areas affected and this will allow at least a window of opportunity for some drainage of river courses etc. As indicated earlier it doesn't look like becoming cold and frosty under this high pressure influence as the positioning of it is likely todraw some mild air North across the UK for a time and later a mild and cloudy SW flow seems more than likely. Though fog could become a problem if any clear skies prevail overnight frost will remain patchy at worst as cloud and upper air temperatures remain above average. There is a chance that the Atlantic influence will return to all areas late in the period as the High to the East or South collapses but at this range I wouldn't bank on it happening in any shown way this morning. So in a nutshell there seems little sign of Autumn 2014 going out on a cold note and the season once more will end up being a very mild and at times wet one with frosts rather less than average and day and night temperatures as a whole over the three months being well above average at times.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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Matty H
15 November 2014 08:37:07

Thanks Martin. Drier and mild sounds good. Plenty of time for winter yet. 


sizzle
15 November 2014 08:46:54


Thanks Martin. Drier and mild sounds good. Plenty of time for winter yet. 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 

yep i second that, happy to see some winter in new year TBH, but enjoying the model watching, and reading all the post, laughing

stormbymills
15 November 2014 09:08:58

Its amazing how similar this November is so far to November 2009, which bought absolute flood chaos to western Britain and Ireland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Great_Britain_and_Ireland_floods#25.E2.80.9329_November 


Parts of southern Ireland have already seen some flooding in the past week http://realityweather.net/flooding-slaney-causes-severe-disruption-damage-includes-video/ 


I don't know how similar the archive models are to current models, patterns etc., but it was mid-December when everything flipped http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/interesting/jan2010/ 


February was also cold, which presented the UK its coldest winter for almost 30 years, with the CET at 2.4c. 


Whether anything cold does occur before this month is out is probably highly unlikely based on the current model output, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did see anything cold or snowy before the year is out.


I would expect that if the beast from the east was to occur, the east coast would be littered with snow showers, primarily because of the high SST's with a cold atmosphere; seems like prime conditions for convection to occur in the form of snow showers.


Such a long way out, and I would admit if I was wrong, but this is the UK after all, and usually, nothing is ever the same nor normal!

Gusty
15 November 2014 09:26:30

Thanks Martin.


The word 'usable' springs to mind.


The GFS ensemble mean at 240 hours sums things up nicely.


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


A fair few perturbations indicate a long fetch southerly. You really wouldn't rule out temps of 16-17c (61-63f) in the final days of the month. 


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marting
15 November 2014 09:39:24
At last something interesting in the 15 day Dutch ensembles with a cold split occurring after day 10. That is the only thing of interest this morning!
Martin
Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
David M Porter
15 November 2014 09:42:12


Its amazing how similar this November is so far to November 2009, which bought absolute flood chaos to western Britain and Ireland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Great_Britain_and_Ireland_floods#25.E2.80.9329_November 


Parts of southern Ireland have already seen some flooding in the past week http://realityweather.net/flooding-slaney-causes-severe-disruption-damage-includes-video/ 


I don't know how similar the archive models are to current models, patterns etc., but it was mid-December when everything flipped http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/interesting/jan2010/ 


February was also cold, which presented the UK its coldest winter for almost 30 years, with the CET at 2.4c. 


Whether anything cold does occur before this month is out is probably highly unlikely based on the current model output, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did see anything cold or snowy before the year is out.


I would expect that if the beast from the east was to occur, the east coast would be littered with snow showers, primarily because of the high SST's with a cold atmosphere; seems like prime conditions for convection to occur in the form of snow showers.


Such a long way out, and I would admit if I was wrong, but this is the UK after all, and usually, nothing is ever the same nor normal!


Originally Posted by: stormbymills 


Good post, welcome to TWO!


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
stormbymills
15 November 2014 09:46:22

Been for a while actually, but I rarely post anything. prefer reading and scanning through. Im just stating that although little coldness is being shown, its amazing how the weather, and models can flip and affect our part of the world so greatly. Just giving those coldies some hope

ITSY
15 November 2014 10:11:20


Thanks Martin.


The word 'usable' springs to mind.


The GFS ensemble mean at 240 hours sums things up nicely.


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


A fair few perturbations indicate a long fetch southerly. You really wouldn't rule out temps of 16-17c (61-63f) in the final days of the month. 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


 


Equally true, but lets not get carried away. A few ptbs also show either Northerlies, Easterlies or high lat blocking - notably the control. We're in a place where, in my opinion, we could go mild through to cold or straight to one or the other over the coming 2/3 weeks.

Maunder Minimum
15 November 2014 10:20:49


Been for a while actually, but I rarely post anything. prefer reading and scanning through. Im just stating that although little coldness is being shown, its amazing how the weather, and models can flip and affect our part of the world so greatly. Just giving those coldies some hope


Originally Posted by: stormbymills 


No hope provided by the Meto I am afraid:


http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/mobile/forecast/gcq4n2q2n


UK Outlook for Saturday 29 Nov 2014 to Saturday 13 Dec 2014:


At the start of the period the most likely scenario is for a continuation of unsettled weather to affect western parts of the UK, where rainfall may well be above average. Spells of rain are likely further east at times too but the best of the dry weather is expected here. As we head into December there are signs that rainfall amounts should become nearer normal. There is currently no signal for temperatures to become lower than average but instead stay around normal for many, perhaps slightly above, especially across southern Britain. Of course, a few rather colder spells are likely during any quieter periods of weather, with a chance of overnight mist and fog in places, and patchy frost - this may be more likely across northern areas.


Issued at: 0400 on Sat 15 Nov 2014"


That is our lot and we just have to endure it.


New world order coming.
Solar Cycles
15 November 2014 10:30:11


 


No hope provided by the Meto I am afraid:


http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/mobile/forecast/gcq4n2q2n


UK Outlook for Saturday 29 Nov 2014 to Saturday 13 Dec 2014:


At the start of the period the most likely scenario is for a continuation of unsettled weather to affect western parts of the UK, where rainfall may well be above average. Spells of rain are likely further east at times too but the best of the dry weather is expected here. As we head into December there are signs that rainfall amounts should become nearer normal. There is currently no signal for temperatures to become lower than average but instead stay around normal for many, perhaps slightly above, especially across southern Britain. Of course, a few rather colder spells are likely during any quieter periods of weather, with a chance of overnight mist and fog in places, and patchy frost - this may be more likely across northern areas.


Issued at: 0400 on Sat 15 Nov 2014"


That is our lot and we just have to endure it.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

Being a half glass full sort of guy I would say that's an upgrade of previous 30 dayers.

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