Remove ads from site

15 November 2014 20:52:33

We have a complete spectrum of possibilities thrown up on the 12z runs today by those models that go out to T240


ECM offers up a northerly http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.gif


GFS op offers up a rather messy synoptic pattern with a small low sitting over the UK with slightly cool uppers http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2402.gif


GFS parallel has a socking great high over the UK with warm uppers which then sits there through to the end of the run http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rpgfs2402.gif


GEM just for good measure has a Spanish plume with very warm uppers http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2402.gif


I think we can safely say that at present the models have no idea what is going to happen in the last week of November.

John p
15 November 2014 20:52:45
Are these TWO charts all stretched for others, or is it just how it renders on my Android tablet?
Camberley, Surrey
Gavin P
15 November 2014 20:54:34


im just glad that ill be saving money on heating this year once again, i prefer the cold and snow, but i love money to so a win win for me, tho any thing can change, tho read terry scholeys forecast  GAVIN P posted  i rate this guy highly he is AWESOME, laughing


and Matty H is awesome too,  surprisedcoollaughing  he is to the point no messing, sharp as a razor, laughing  sorry for topic, guys, laughing


Originally Posted by: sizzle 




We have a complete spectrum of possibilities thrown up on the 12z runs today by those models that go out to T240


ECM offers up a northerly http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.gif


GFS op offers up a rather messy synoptic pattern with a small low sitting over the UK with slightly cool uppers http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2402.gif


GFS parallel has a socking great high over the UK with warm uppers which then sits there through to the end of the run http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rpgfs2402.gif


GEM just for good measure has a Spanish plume with very warm uppers http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2402.gif


I think we can safely say that at present the models have no idea what is going to happen in the last week of November.


Originally Posted by: Global Warming 


It does seem as though the models are sniffing something out! 


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Stormchaser
15 November 2014 20:55:27

No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.  No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


Clearly there's a major difference between GFS (left) and ECM (right) even at just 5 days range. This is because GFS has a weak disturbance to our west, preventing the ridge from building west through the UK and beyond, while ECM has decided to drop that feature having had it on previous runs. All of a sudden there's a clean cut-off low on the ECM run which supports further westward extension of the blocking high in the face of the Atlantic:


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


It then just so happens that the upstream flow is also amplified enough to push a ridge up to Greenland days 8-10, walling off the Atlantic by day 10 and setting up the UK for at least a temporary Arctic outbreak from the north, perhaps something longer lived if a trough dug right down into Europe:


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


 


Looking at the other models, both UKMO and GFS feature a strong ridge to the south of Greenland on day 6 which has the potential to ridge up to Greenland if the flow is amplified enough. GFS remains close to achieving that through to the end of higher-res (day 😎. It then finally pulls it off days 9-10 and most likely puts too much energy into the Atlantic storms thereafter.


The main inhibitor on the GFS run is low pressure bombing out SW of Greenland on day 7. This is also true of the GEM run, which like GFS features considerable blocking around the UK days 5-8. There's no change of heart days 9-10 though.


ECM has totally dropped that bombing low, while UKMO makes a lot less of it. That really is a game changer if it turns out to be the right path going forward.


GFSP continues to insist on a stronger tropospheric polar vortex, with a lot less high pressure across the Arctic than the other models go with. Honestly, if we do end up with something more like what ECM shows, I'll be much inclined to throw GFSP into the bin and keep it there! 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
nickl
15 November 2014 21:31:36
At this point, nothing that the 00z's chuck out would surprise me! anything could pop up tomorrow and be a reasonable call. strange.
Russwirral
15 November 2014 23:02:18

 


FI finally delivers some eye candy.  I must say - it developed exactly like i thought it would.


https://max.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20141115/18/288/hgt500-1000.png 


If you have the time to have  a look - check out November and December 2009 and 2010.  The chart synoptics develop in a very similar way.  


 


Thats not to say that this FI is a one off... which it could be.  Its just a very interesting FI is all...


Gooner
15 November 2014 23:10:04


 


FI finally delivers some eye candy.  I must say - it developed exactly like i thought it would.


https://max.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20141115/18/288/hgt500-1000.png 


If you have the time to have  a look - check out November and December 2009 and 2010.  The chart synoptics develop in a very similar way.  


 


Thats not to say that this FI is a one off... which it could be.  Its just a very interesting FI is all...


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Indeed , and dragging in some colder air


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014111518/gfsnh-1-288.png?18


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014111518/gfsnh-1-336.png?18


 


 


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Joe Bloggs
15 November 2014 23:11:39
Yep some real eye candy appearing in FI with some real cold and snow potential (18z GFS and parallel)

Not to be taken seriously yet 😉

Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

David M Porter
15 November 2014 23:17:39


 


FI finally delivers some eye candy.  I must say - it developed exactly like i thought it would.


https://max.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20141115/18/288/hgt500-1000.png 


If you have the time to have  a look - check out November and December 2009 and 2010.  The chart synoptics develop in a very similar way.  


 


Thats not to say that this FI is a one off... which it could be.  Its just a very interesting FI is all...


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


One never knows.


I imagine that back in both 2009 and 2010, when the first model runs began to appear indicating the start of the major cold spells that occurred during the latter part of those two years, there were some at the time that probably looked at those charts and thought "Nah, it'll never turn out like that". I must admit that in early December 2009 I was sceptical at first, but the longer the models went with it and once the ECM, GFS and UKMO were on board, the more I began to think that we were likely to see a big cold spell, the like of which we haven't seen much of in the previous 30 years. I was less sceptical of the charts before the severe spell that commenced in late November 2010 came along, I think mainly because of what had happened the previous year.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Gooner
15 November 2014 23:19:28

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfsp/runs/2014111518/gfs-0-324.png?18


GFS P


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Russwirral
15 November 2014 23:29:19
The Ensembles have been increasingly wobbly these past few days, which says to me big changes ahead of some kind. Saying that there still isnt enough grouping at a colder temperature to say this will be a cold change.

Will be good to see the 18z ensembles to see if there is an increase in confidence. But for now its nice to see, and nice to speculate on.
Brian Gaze
16 November 2014 00:15:28
18z GEFS are breaking to cold. Exciting day tomorrow. See:

http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx 
Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Tom Oxon
16 November 2014 00:16:56
Hello all,

My initial prognosis of prolonged rain with average temps was slightly off - the wind is coming from a slightly more S'ly or SW'ly quandrant which is keeping the mean around 10C.

Further ahead, 8-10 days ens are thus:

http://mp1.met.psu.edu/~fxg1/ECMWF_0z/test8.gif 
http://mp1.met.psu.edu/~fxg1/ECMWF_12z/test8.gif 

Therefore, my previous forecast of a potential transient northely at T+7-10 days from now (T+14-17 days when I mentioned this a week ago) remains unchanged but confidence at 50/50 and may not affect the south that much.

So, for the mid term, I expect a collapsing High to remain in situ for the end of this month and early Dec. Starting, towards the end of November, with frequent fog, then reverting to a clear high type for early Dec i.e. average days but hard frosts, clear.

In short, I expect heights to the north-west to topple after a transient N'ly then a weak toppler to provide some dry weather.


After that is just a punt, mine is some -AO tendency recently so I predict a dry December at least, quadrant unsure with ref to temps but I think frost will be pretty common.
S Warwickshire countryside, c.375ft asl.
Stormchaser
16 November 2014 00:33:46

Shades of 2010's dramatic shifts here... but with a different flavour of blocking high perhaps.


Weirdly, the GFSP 18z follows the GFS 12z very closely as we see an Atlantic trough ride over the Euro ridge and then drop south as heights rise over the Arctic and Greenland. The Arctic High then drops down into Scandi and rests above the decaying Euro trough, with slightly epic results:


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.  No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


This occurs thanks to the Canadian trough activity being less intrusive over the pole as early as day 5.


The GFS 18z has taken things a step further, with more extensive high pressure across the Arctic, which forces the jet to track further south. This essentially takes us to the same result down the line, but about a day sooner:


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.  No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


 


This is all very exciting and all that... BUT the models are notorious for overreacting to a new signal at first before toning things down over the following few days - and that's when they're playing nice. When they're not, you get wild swings between winter wonderland charts and Atlantic westerlies (or something in between). That's the infamous roller coaster ride, responsible for the old 'razor blades' phrase.


To quote an old favourite of mine, here's hoping those seeking a decent blast of snow to end the month aren't left crying into their cornflakes in the morning 


Must. Keep. Expectations. Low.


It's nice to be doing this again after total absence last winter 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
White Meadows
16 November 2014 00:38:00
Oh dear, some running away with excitement springs to mind. So far in the last week we've seen northern blocking replaced by raging Atlantic, replaced by continental highs, UK high pressure from run to run.
Now easterlies and in another 24 hours back to raging Atlantic S'westerlies.
nsrobins
16 November 2014 08:38:02


 


There hasn't been an "Atlantic onslaught" projected on any output. It's kind of a reverse Quantum from those that only see zonality when there's nothing of the sort shown. 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


In some ways that is incorrect. After a period up to last weekend of projecting substantial N blocking the output in sequence changed to a much mor e mobile pattern - not 'zonal' as such but a flatter jet and occasional euro-high with plenty of wind and rain in the outlook.
We now see a switch back medium term with HLB again featuring.


In short, confidence is very low as illustrated by wide divergence in the ENS set and no conclusions can be made at this point about the last week Nov.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
GIBBY
16 November 2014 08:48:51

HERE IS MY LATEST ANALYSIS FROM THE OUTPUTS OF THE WEATHER COMPUTER PREDICTION MODELS FOR TWO WEEKS FROM 8AM TODAY SUNDAY NOVEMBER 16TH 2014.


NEXT UPDATE MONDAY NOVEMBER 17TH 08:00


THE CURRENT GENERAL SITUATION. Slack low pressure continues to lie close to Southern England with a trough moving West over England and Wales tonight.


MODELS-2 WEEK HEADLINE  Becoming generally less unsettled with a lot of dry and bright weather with just occasional rain. Temperatures near or a little above average. Perhaps becoming somewhat colder later


THE JET STREAM ENSEMBLE FORECAST The GFS Jet Stream Ensemble forecast shows a very complex and uncertain pattern over our part of the Northern hemisphere over the coming two weeks. In general there will be a tendency for there to be a split flow, one flowing East over the Arctic while a complex Southern arm undulates and disrupts towards the west and SW of the UK. Later in week 2 the flow simplifies to a single flow, blowing strongly across Greenland and Iceland before travelling SE over Scandinavia.


GFS OPERATIONAL The GFS operational this morning indicates High pressure becoming the dominant force affecting the UK weather over the two weeks. This starts the period over Eastern Europe extending a ridge across Scandinavia and the UK later this week before being reinforced by a new centre close to NW Brirain slipping South later. This wards off any major Atlantic attack though some fronts will make inroads from the West at first and the North later with a little rain. Temperatures will remain close to or a little above average to begin with but will probably fall off with time as the incidence of clearer skies permits more in the way of frost and fog at night to develop, slow to clear by day.


THE GFS PARALLEL RUN The GFS Parallel run shows a similar evolution in the short term with a gradual transition towards High pressure based dry if rather cloudy weather for most once this weeks weakening troughs move out of the way later. In Week 2 High pressure forms a new centre close to the UK drifting NE and allowing a colder feed of Easterly winds later which coupled with lower pressure developing brings rain to the South eventually extending to all areas later as the High to the East recedes away.


THE GFS ENSEMBLES.  The GFS Ensembles show slightly less domination from the High over Europe this week with a slack if rather mild SE flow for many and occasional troughs moving North over the west of the UK maintaining ccasional rainfall here while the East stays largely dry. Then a more concerted push of rain and attendant Low pressure clears East and allows a new High to form over Northern Britain setting up a large UK based High pressure system for much of the rest of the run with colder and perhaps frosty and foggy conditions developing thereafter.


UKMO. UKMO today shows a slack SE flow later this week strengthening later as Low pressure and fronts approach the UK from the West by next weekend. East is best being the motto this week as weak fronts continue to affect these Western parts at times especially at first and again later while the East sees a lot of dry and cloudy, benign type conditions in temperatures overall close to if not a little above average.


THE FAX CHARTS  The Fax Charts show the current complex Low pressure near Southern britain slowly giving way and filling as a benign ESE flow develops around High pressure to the East. Troughs continue to afflict the West at times even late in the week with occasional rainfall here whereas many Eastern areas become largely dry after tomorrow.


GEM  GEM this morning shows a more simplified pattern reolving around High pressure over Europe and/or over Scandinavia. A SE flow will develop across the UK over the coming days and persist through to the end of the run. With pressure rising substantuially this week a lot of dry if rather cloudy weather is likely before pressure falls again towards the end of the run as Low pressure edges in from the west to bring rain back slowly East late in the period.


NAVGEM NAVGEM shows a very similar pattern with the UK under SE winds with the driest and brightest weather in the East while weak troughs continue to affect the West at times with occasional rain spreading further east towards next weekend.


ECM  ECM this morning shows High pressure taking over control of the UK weather though it might take a while for the full effects to be shown to all areas as weakening troughs through this week continue to buffer the West of the UK at times. Later on High pressure shifts from being to the East to being to the North of the UK with cooler and frosty air developing in situ under clear skies in the North and a freshening NE breeze across the South where cloud and rain from Low pressure over East France and Switzerland could threaten the SE for a time.


THE ECM ENSEMBLES   There is strong support for a shift towards High pressure based weather to develop across the UK around a centre of High pressure which is most favoured to end up centred close to Scandinavia. Weather at the surface will depend on how much cloud is trapped within it's circulation but with a light Easterly drift we have to look towards somewhat cooler conditions with a risk of frost and fog by night in places.


NOTABLE TREND CHANGES FROM PREVIOUS RUNS The trend continues to grow towards rising pressure across the UK with a shift towards drier conditions and though possibly cooler never cold.


MY THOUGHTS   The models have really shifted away from the unsettled and Atlantic dominated wet and windy pattern shown a few days back to show a cross model agreement on High pressure to the East of the UK affecting all areas with time, though changes in the far West will be slow and erratic and hiccups could give a little rain at times to all areas too as the High pressure shuffles around. there also is some support for a new centre develop near Northern Britain with perhpas more in the way of frost and fog for us if that pattern evolves. However, in the short term a benign east or SE flow will maintain average if not slightly above temperatures but with a lot of cloud likely frost and fog by night looks limited in the short term. The one thing of note this morning is that despite a lot of High pressure around the UK and the NE there is little cold air to tap into but the caveat being that with High pressure in the positions shown a slight drift further North of the High pressure could allow something cold to drift South over Europe and advect West towards the UK. This is hinted at by some output but doesn't develop on this occasion but this could become a feature of the output over coming days if the High pressure support continues to grow between the models. So in the short term some relief from the wet pattern of stalled Low pressure to something not exciting but different in weather terms to look forward to with dry and rather cloudy weather likely to form a large part of many forecasts later this week in temperatures close to or a little above average before falling off somewhat later. At least the water table should start to fall slowly with the impact of less new rainfall becoming significantly welcome.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
marting
16 November 2014 09:19:54

Charts are moving around rapidly at the moment, so very hard to predict, but we again have much more interesting ECM ensembles I guess showing the high pressure cool down.


Martin


Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
Stormchaser
16 November 2014 09:33:08

There you have it - the model roller coaster at it's most merciless 


 


Following a spell of rain from the North Sea tonight through tomorrow, we're back to a mid-latitude block from Tuesday onward which could keep the UK under a settled regime for some time, with variable temperatures, potentially chilly if we find ourselves in a continental flow or under persistent fog.


Hardly any sign of the jet firing a trough down through Scandinavia on the 00z runs, the exception being the GFSP 00z which has a go - but with nothing like the dramatic impacts shown on yesterdays 18z run. Perhaps this was a red herring. The output is back to being more in line with what might be expected as a cold lower stratosphere works to strengthen the tropospheric vortex, leaving us reliant on what happens when the upper stratospheric warming propagates down some time in December... assuming it does, that is.


 


Best thing to do now is enjoy Sunday and leave the models to try and figure things out. We might be at the end of a brief roller coaster, or we might have a few more laps of the track left to do... to be honest I have no idea what to expect on the 12z runs.


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
ITSY
16 November 2014 10:01:19

the ecm debilt ensembles are, if not the coldest, then the coldest I have seen this winter. for the second half of the run the majority of ens going for daytime temp heights across the channel of max 5C, with the biggest cluster sticking cold way out to the end. several minor snow events in there too, so i'd say that's positive. On the other hand, GEFS ens less convincing than last night so another day of watching this space and seeing how things develop in the far reaches of high res and the early days of low res

Ally Pally Snowman
16 November 2014 10:08:42

The ECM ensembles for Holland have certainly started to head cooler if not cold. Could be a cold spell before the end of the month yet!


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
16 November 2014 10:11:10


the ecm debilt ensembles are, if not the coldest, then the coldest I have seen this winter. for the second half of the run the majority of ens going for daytime temp heights across the channel of max 5C, with the biggest cluster sticking cold way out to the end. several minor snow events in there too, so i'd say that's positive. On the other hand, GEFS ens less convincing than last night so another day of watching this space and seeing how things develop in the far reaches of high res and the early days of low res


Originally Posted by: ITSY 


You beat me to it.  Definitely the coldest this winter and probably colder than anything we saw last year.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gavin P
16 November 2014 10:11:50

I'm starting to wonder about fog later this week. Very warm air aloft, cooler on the surface, wind/air generally from off the Continent... Looking like a perfect recipe for quite a lot of disruptive fog to me?


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Joe Bloggs
16 November 2014 10:15:52

Oh dear, some running away with excitement springs to mind. So far in the last week we've seen northern blocking replaced by raging Atlantic, replaced by continental highs, UK high pressure from run to run.
Now easterlies and in another 24 hours back to raging Atlantic S'westerlies.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


I don't think a single person has expressed any sign of running away with excitement?, we all know how fickle this game is (or should do anyway).. Lots of level headed posts today. 


Still looking extremely anticyclonic this morning... Real cold potential has backed off slightly though. 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

nickl
16 November 2014 10:22:02
Interesting week 2 ens spread developments - mid Atlantic ridge inc Iceland??

Remove ads from site

Ads