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Matty H
21 June 2017 12:00:55


Common sense model Matty 😉 this is "almost as hot as it gets in the UK" so common sense suggests it's unlikely to be bettered this year (although not impossible I grant you). A virtual 🍺🍺 says this will be the peak of the heat this summer.


Back to the models the UKMO still provides hope that I won't be needing my Ark next week, as it's nowhere as unsettled as the GFS. Time, as ever, will tell.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Sorry, I was just trying to understand which model you were using (your words). I've now clarified there wasn't one. Thanks for updating :)


Chunky Pea
21 June 2017 13:56:10

What I'm looking for now is the reset. I think some form of trough next week is almost inevitable, so the question is what will the next pattern change look like, and how long will this forecast unsettled spell last.

Originally Posted by: TimS 


If the latest edition of EC45 is to go by, then you'll be a while waiting for the next reset. But, its only one model, and like them all, is subject to change.


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
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TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
21 June 2017 17:24:10
There does seem to be a consensus that we get a slow moving depression over us for at least 3-4 days from Tuesday onwards. Shows up in GEM too, and previous ECMs, UKMO hints at it at 144hrs.

That in itself isn't the end of the world. It will be showery and cool but not that bad. The issue is what happens when it clears. GFS 12z tries to edge in a ridge but gets overrun by depressions. How quickly the trough leaves us, how much rain it dumps, and what comes next, will determine whether this is a summer of 3 hot dry months or at best a mixed one.
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Jiries
21 June 2017 17:45:30

There does seem to be a consensus that we get a slow moving depression over us for at least 3-4 days from Tuesday onwards. Shows up in GEM too, and previous ECMs, UKMO hints at it at 144hrs.

That in itself isn't the end of the world. It will be showery and cool but not that bad. The issue is what happens when it clears. GFS 12z tries to edge in a ridge but gets overrun by depressions. How quickly the trough leaves us, how much rain it dumps, and what comes next, will determine whether this is a summer of 3 hot dry months or at best a mixed one.

Originally Posted by: TimS 


More likely it will be water down on this set-up as they shown LP over us this week and last weekend from the charts churned out but suddenly they watered down and brought the heatwave instead and no one expected today to be the hottest day or 5 days runs of over 30C temps.  At least it still in FI range so there time to water down again. 

doctormog
21 June 2017 19:02:41
Looks like everyone will get to enjoy our current taste of autumn over the next week or two. Rather unsettled sums it up.
briggsy6
21 June 2017 19:21:43

Is it me or are our summers becoming more extreme ?


Location: Uxbridge
moomin75
21 June 2017 19:58:26
No more hyperbole from me. But there is almost no doubt we are entering a much more changeable phase and looks like setting in for perhaps a week to ten days. The charts do look a little "Autumnal" and it will be cool in any showers which appear to be quite prevalent on GFS and ECM. UKMO looks a little better and there is much heat to our south to tap into. I think we likely will, but not for a week or two. In the meantime, cooler and much more unsettled does sum it up. At least that'll allow the heat to seap out of the house in readiness for the next warm spell.
I have actually said previously I fancy a warmer and drier summer overall but the next couple of weeks are going to be disappointing. Sometimes these patterns get locked in for weeks on end, but I actually don't think that'll be the case.....just think it'll take patience for the next reload.
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Brian Gaze
21 June 2017 21:36:23

Last warning. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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doctormog
21 June 2017 21:55:54
http://wxmaps.org/pix/prec4.html 

Still, it's early days and I'd be surprised if the last few days are the only hot spell this summer!
Sevendust
21 June 2017 22:35:34
http://wxmaps.org/pix/prec4.html 

Still, it's early days and I'd be surprised if the last few days are the only hot spell this summer!


Model reliability is less good in summer so I treat anything with greater suspicion than normal. A west or NW flow as could arrive next week still allows for reasonable weather in the SE providing pressure is not too low. 


The recent hot spell has been quite unusual given how early in summer it arrived although I have no idea what will happen further out.


Fww, I put my money on a warm summer so we'll see ;)

moomin75
21 June 2017 22:38:48


 


Model reliability is less good in summer so I treat anything with greater suspicion than normal. A west or NW flow as could arrive next week still allows for reasonable weather in the SE providing pressure is not too low. 


The recent hot spell has been quite unusual given how early in summer it arrived although I have no idea what will happen further out.


Fww, I put my money on a warm summer so we'll see ;)


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 

Genuine question and not meant as a wind up - do you have stats that back up this hypothesis? I always thought or got the impression that model volatility was higher in the winter months though nothing to back this up. I have never seen any verification stats for models summer or winter. 


FWIW I also think overall the summer will end up pretty memorable.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Sevendust
22 June 2017 00:32:54


Genuine question and not meant as a wind up - do you have stats that back up this hypothesis? I always thought or got the impression that model volatility was higher in the winter months though nothing to back this up. I have never seen any verification stats for models summer or winter. 


FWIW I also think overall the summer will end up pretty memorable.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


I have this on good authority from friends in the Met Office and Private Weather Companies. I think the rationale is that the jet is more predictable in winter whereas in summer you often get a slack regime that can easily swing in a different direction.

Brian Gaze
22 June 2017 06:34:27

Overnight GEFS has trended warmer and drier during the first week of July. Too early to call #blowtorch but worth watching in the next few days.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Jiries
22 June 2017 06:59:21

Yes Brian and that how it picked up this current heatwave we got already.  I don't expect very high temps again but I think the models will back track the unsettled weather and probably next few runs will carry on and we end up more warm weather around since the continent still hot and hard to shift it away.

TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
22 June 2017 07:38:06
The GEFS just looks to me like reversion to the mean. Whoever there is a cold or warm spell the long term ensemble always shows some kind of reversion to the mean.

I'm going to go into model watching hibernation for a few days I think. Then start a summer is over thread 😉
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Gusty
22 June 2017 07:46:51

The second (less significant but usual) wave of the the European June monsoon is due in the last week of June. All relatively normal. I'm expecting the settled conditions and warmth to return in early July.


FWIW next weeks cool and cyclonic looking setup is a recipe for tasty convection and afternoon thunderstorms but with cooler nights for sleeping.


 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
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Brian Gaze
22 June 2017 11:08:34
Next off topic or trolling comment will result in account deletion. If I've not deleted 3 accounts by the end of today I'll be surprised.
Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
David M Porter
22 June 2017 15:56:25

What is pretty certain going by the latest output is that the weather is likely to be a good deal cooler as well as more changeable as we head into next week than has been the case generally over the past week or so. The heatwave that ended last night never quite made it up to the north of Scotland although parts of southern, central and eastern Scotland did not badly last weekend and at the start of this week.


Beyond next week, who knows, but what I think is quite clear now is that for some of the country at least, June has been a somewhat better month for weather than was being predicted by some here a fortnight or so back. The models are also at times hinting of it possibly becoming more settled again as we head into July, so it's all to play for as far as I'm concerned.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Charmhills
22 June 2017 16:39:20


The second (less significant but usual) wave of the the European June monsoon is due in the last week of June. All relatively normal. I'm expecting the settled conditions and warmth to return in early July.


FWIW next weeks cool and cyclonic looking setup is a recipe for tasty convection and afternoon thunderstorms but with cooler nights for sleeping.


 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Yes Steve, next week could be interesting for convective fans after a let down from last night in terms of storms,  or lack of.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
yorkshirelad89
22 June 2017 17:48:12

To shift away from some of the autumnal posts, I'm surprised the UKMO hasn't got a mention. It looks completely different from the GFS after 72h and at a glance, a bit warmer!

At T96 the UK is stuck underneath a Col with perhaps high pressure beginning to build to our North.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/UKMOPEU12_120_1.png

Anything could happen from here and the heat isn't too far away....


I think the reason why it is so different is because it doesn't develop that low on Monday as much, a plausible outcome I think.


Hull
doctormog
22 June 2017 17:53:10


To shift away from some of the 'autumnal' posts, I'm surprised the UKMO hasn't got a mention. It looks completely different from the GFS after 72h and at a glance, pretty warm!

At T96 the UK is stuck underneath a Col with perhaps high pressure beginning to build to our North.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/UKMOPEU12_120_1.png

Anything could happen from here and the heat isn't too far away....


Originally Posted by: yorkshirelad89 


My post is based on some of the actual output. 


While the UKMO is definitely better at that time point and is more settledthan the GFS the GFS has been consistent about the low pressure dominating the UK's weather. Perhaps autumnal is a bit harsh but I guess a milder version of autumn would be more appropriate for many northern parts? (For example the Met Office mention the risk of wintriness at Munro level over the weekend).


Saying it's not so sadly doesn't make it go away. For what it's worth I'm not convinced that the cooler more unsettled conditions will (a) last for a prolonged period of time or (b) be that noticeable for more southern parts, especially in periods of lighter wind and sunshine. 


yorkshirelad89
22 June 2017 18:03:29


 


My post is based on some of the actual output. 


While the UKMO is definitely better at that time point and is more settledthan the GFS the GFS has been consistent about the low pressure dominating the UK's weather. Perhaps autumnal is a bit harsh but I guess a milder version of autumn would be more appropriate for many northern parts? (For example the Met Office mention the risk of wintriness at Munro level over the weekend).


Saying it's not so sadly doesn't make it go away. For what it's worth I'm not convinced that the cooler more unsettled conditions will (a) last for a prolonged period of time or (b) be that noticeable for more southern parts, especially in periods of lighter wind and sunshine. 


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Yup the GFS would be pretty poor for late June and to be fair it does tie in with the ECM somewhat from this morning. I think part of me thinks it will be watered down is because:

- We have a very slack atmospheric circulation pattern which will lead to large uncertainty over a small timescale. I think the GFS may be overestimating the extent of low pressure over our shores (although SST's to our immediate SW are about 3C above average so perhaps not?)

- I remember early last week the output kept suggesting a cool anticyclonic northerly which didn't materialise and then we had high pressure building over Scandi/ to our east again to give the South at least more warmth. It would surprise me if we reverted to cooler weather types now all of a sudden after a long period of warmth.


I may be wrong but small changes to the UKMO and a different picture could emergy once again.


Hull
Brian Gaze
22 June 2017 18:05:34

Evening GEFS update appears to follow this morning's 00z suite. 



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
doctormog
22 June 2017 18:08:58


 


Yup the GFS would be pretty poor for late June and to be fair it does tie in with the ECM somewhat from this morning. I think part of me thinks it will be watered down is because:

- We have a very slack atmospheric circulation pattern which will lead to large uncertainty over a small timescale. I think the GFS may be overestimating the extent of low pressure over our shores (although SST's to our immediate SW are about 3C above average so perhaps not?)

- I remember early last week the output kept suggesting a cool anticyclonic northerly which didn't materialise and then we had high pressure building over Scandi/ to our east again to give the South at least more warmth. It would surprise me if we reverted to cooler weather types now all of a sudden after a long period of warmth.


I may be wrong but small changes to the UKMO and a different picture could emergy once again.


Originally Posted by: yorkshirelad89 



I think you are right Jonny. Your logic certainly is.


Fingers crossed as the GFS is depressing me  A gradual shift away from the cooler cyclonic conditions to something much warmer in the medium term would really not surprise me. Hopefully hints of this might be evident in the later stages of tonight's ECM.


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