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Brian Gaze
26 March 2020 09:31:26

FWIW I think a trick was missed by calling this COVID-19. Had it been SARS-lightning or something similar the shock and awe would have made people change their behaviour a lot sooner.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Justin W
26 March 2020 09:47:58


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Gandalf The White
26 March 2020 09:50:46

China have reported;

67 new confirmed cases all were imported from abroad
6 new deaths
58 new suspected cases all were imported from abroad

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


 


Is anyone else suspicious of this data? It seems highly improbable that 100% of new cases are being 'imported': the temptation to bundle the local cases under that heading must be immense, given the propaganda machine message that The Party has been triumphant in eradicating their epidemic. 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gavin D
26 March 2020 09:59:19
Germany have reported 2,032 new cases and 16 new deaths in the overnight update
Heavy Weather 2013
26 March 2020 09:59:58




Originally Posted by: Justin W 


This is indeed a brightspot. Long may it continue.


Apprently on news night last night there was an expert saying PHE now have to get consent from the family to release if they died from COVID-19. I’m not sure how true that is though.


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
26 March 2020 10:01:06


When it comes to testing, according to the MSM this morning, the issue is one of supply of test kits. All countries are buying up all supplies and there are not enough to go round. Another argument for having our own labs for the production of such items for UK use.


The NHS is a clumsy organisation and probably is not the best model for delivering healthcare in normal times, but during an epidemic, it should come into its own - but it cannot do the job if it relies on purchasing vital test kits and equipment from places like China - works during normal times, but we are left with our pants round our ankles at times like the present.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

That’s a global economy for you!  Perhaps this could be a lesson in what’s needed in house and what can be manufactured in house!  It would be a boost to our economy and the environment too if products don’t have to be transported far.  So many lessons can be learnt from this. Let’s hope we take note!


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
Retron
26 March 2020 10:08:22


This is indeed a brightspot. Long may it continue.


Apprently on news night last night there was an expert saying PHE now have to get consent from the family to release if they died from COVID-19. I’m not sure how true that is though.


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


The snag is, yesterday's death data was incomplete. Today's leap (assuming it's with complete data) should be much higher.


As for the bit about having to get consent, hopefully that's not true. It'd make the figures almost meaningless if it was - and should overridden by the government if so.


 


Leysdown, north Kent
Sevendust
26 March 2020 10:09:24


Is anyone else suspicious of this data? It seems highly improbable that 100% of new cases are being 'imported': the temptation to bundle the local cases under that heading must be immense, given the propaganda machine message that The Party has been triumphant in eradicating their epidemic. 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Of course.


The mixture of propoganda, mixed testing and variable practices means that most figures should contain a health warning.


India, Iran and Russia would also be highly suspect

Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
26 March 2020 10:11:29


Surely at this stage the anti-body testing is more important than mass (positive/negative) testing. It will perhaps confirm or lay to rest those theories that a massive proportion of the country have already had it.

I would love to believe it , but I really cannot see it being the case that up to 50% of the country have already had it because generally speaking our hospitals/care homes etc are not overrun with cases like some other countries and have not been over the last few months.  It stands to reasons countries that are overrun have a much higher prevalence of cases. Most tests are also coming back negative and have been doing all along.


Originally Posted by: Tim A 

You’re right that most tests are coming back negative, but what those tests can’t tell us is whether that person has already had it.  


I’d like to believe there are many more people who have had it and are now immune. From all the global reports and the way this has spread, it seems possible.  But that’s only me holding my half full glass. It’s nothing scientific.  We won’t know until antibody tests are widely available and until they are, our priority is looking after the worst affected while keeping the NHS afloat. 


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
Heavy Weather 2013
26 March 2020 10:14:03


 


The snag is, yesterday's death data was incomplete. Today's leap (assuming it's with complete data) should be much higher.


As for the bit about having to get consent, hopefully that's not true. It'd make the figures almost meaningless if it was - and should overridden by the government if so.


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


You’re right I noticed earlier that the figures were not for the full 24hrs. I wonder what was happening yesterday the Figures came out so late 


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
26 March 2020 10:15:07

China have reported;

67 new confirmed cases all were imported from abroad
6 new deaths
58 new suspected cases all were imported from abroad

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

It makes me wonder if China has reached the much maligned ‘herd immunity’, if their only new cases are imported rather than community transmitted.


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
Justin W
26 March 2020 10:20:49


 


The snag is, yesterday's death data was incomplete. Today's leap (assuming it's with complete data) should be much higher.


As for the bit about having to get consent, hopefully that's not true. It'd make the figures almost meaningless if it was - and should overridden by the government if so.


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Even so, the trajectory (excluding yesterday’s data) is clearly less steep than Spain or Italy. I do think it is encouraging.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Rob K
26 March 2020 10:28:48


 


The other way of viewing it would be that’s it’s good to see them planning in line with the modelling.  Better to have the capacity and not actually need it than see existing hospitals swamped.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Yes quite right. People saying it is scary - that video of the Excel centre for instance - but I find it quite reassuring that they are putting in all this extra capacity. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Quantum
26 March 2020 10:32:22

JFF model predicts 1491 cases today.


The three day periodicity would suggest it would be lower than this though.


Anything significantly greater would indicate a modelling failure.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Retron
26 March 2020 10:33:11


Even so, the trajectory (excluding yesterday’s data) is clearly less steep than Spain or Italy. I do think it is encouraging.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


True, it's good to see - I'm hopeful that in around 2 weeks there'll be a marked slowdown / levelling off on the logarithmic graphs.


Worth mentioning again just how good the FT's data page is - graphs for each of the countries (scroll down to see them).


https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest


 


 


Leysdown, north Kent
llamedos
  • llamedos
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
26 March 2020 10:34:15

Why am I not surprised by this  :


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52043896


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Justin W
26 March 2020 10:34:24


JFF model predicts 1491 cases today.


The three day periodicity would suggest it would be lower than this though.


Anything significantly greater would indicate a modelling failure.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Can we see the underlying methodology for this, please?


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Quantum
26 March 2020 10:39:47


 


Can we see the underlying methodology for this, please?


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


I went over it in detail in a previous thread either yesterday or the day before in response to you asking then. I'll try and find the post.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Brian Gaze
26 March 2020 10:43:42

Interestingly I have developed a dry but intermittent cough during the last 2 nights. My temperature measured this morning was 36.7C and oxygen saturation 98%. Both normal. However, since I returned from Finland less than 14 days before the symptoms started I am considering coronavirus as a possibility. The cough could also be a legacy of the cold I recently had but for me that would be an unusual development.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
John p
26 March 2020 10:43:43


 


The snag is, yesterday's death data was incomplete. Today's leap (assuming it's with complete data) should be much higher.


As for the bit about having to get consent, hopefully that's not true. It'd make the figures almost meaningless if it was - and should overridden by the government if so.


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


From Chris Smyth, The Times 


Death figures update: last night only 28 new fatalities recorded.


Alas this is not good news, it is because there are now so many deaths NHS using a 7.30am cut off instead of 1pm.


So govt looking at changing how they are reported 1/2


We may not get any death figures today, as they are looking at moving to publishing first thing in the morning.


Aim is to give more time to collate NHS data and inform families before ages and locations made public 2/2


Camberley, Surrey
Maunder Minimum
26 March 2020 10:44:44


 


Of course.


The mixture of propoganda, mixed testing and variable practices means that most figures should contain a health warning.


India, Iran and Russia would also be highly suspect


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 


As I keep reiterating, all statistics are indicative only - especially for countries like China.


There is an article in the Guardian today about Indonesia - their figures are low because they have not been testing and have been studiously ignoring the epidemic there - but as for Turkey, there comes a tipping point where that is no longer possible since everyone can see what is happening - that tipping point has been reached in Indonesia:


https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/mar/26/indonesia-could-have-thousands-of-hidden-coronavirus-cases-study-says


"...


On Monday, it was estimated by academics at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine that as few as 2% of Indonesia’s coronavirus infections have been reported.


..."


 


New world order coming.
Justin W
26 March 2020 10:44:48


 


I went over it in detail in a previous thread either yesterday or the day before in response to you asking then. I'll try and find the post.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Thanks. Sorry I missed it.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
xioni2
26 March 2020 10:53:08

I haven't read these threads since last evening, so apologies if already mentioned:


The rapid (antibodies?) tests that Spain got from China are not accurate (only 30% accuracy) https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-03-25/los-test-rapidos-de-coronavirus-comprados-en-china-no-funcionan.html


Also as I thought, the police has started recording a significant drop in crime in the UK and Moscow announced a lockdown.


 

xioni2
26 March 2020 10:58:25

I was sent a link to a Newsnight interview with a minister about ventilators, but it was unwatchable. The way they lie to us and treat us like children is infuriating.


An interesting read on how the Spanish govt and the authorities there messed up big time


"“Spain will only have a handful of cases,” said Dr Fernando Simón, the head of medical emergencies in Madrid, on 9 February. In late February and early March, with temperatures above 20C (68F), Madrid’s pavement cafes and bars were heaving with happy folk, doing what Madrileños like best – being sociable. That means hugging, kissing and animated chatter just a few inches from someone else’s face. On 8 March, just a week before the country was closed down, sports events, political party conferences and massive demonstrations to mark International Women’s Day all took place. 


The Socialist-led government of Pedro Sánchez reacted late and clumsily. The country lacked essential equipment. Ventilators, protective clothing for doctors and coronavirus tests are still only just being sourced.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/spain-coronavirus-response-analysis 

Quantum
26 March 2020 10:59:33


 


Thanks. Sorry I missed it.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


I can't find the post, I think it might have been two days ago.


Anyway the upshot was this. The function I'm using to model it looks like this:


 


Aexp(B(t-t0)^2 + C(t-t0)) + F


A: Essentially an integration constant, could be useful to add additional complexities like changes in how testing is conducted.


B: The parameter that 'bends the exponential'. B should be small and negitive, that way the function begins as an exponential but with a slowly decreasing time dependent R0. Initially the function looks like an exponential, later it becomes a Gausian when B dominates over C


C: Related to the initial exponential growth. Should be fit to the beginning of the sustained localized 'exponential' transmission phase. A C value of 0.9 roughly corresponds to an R0 of 2.5


t0: A lag parameter. Just to allow the function to approppiately start at the right time


F: Unphysical constant. Recomment keeping this at 0 ideally.


 


If you want to model the three day periodicity then you could incoperate a sinusodial variation into A (for example A=0.1cos(2pi/3t) +1 )


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.

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