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Tim A
29 January 2021 19:09:54

Models are really struggling. Lots of scatter in the GFS ensembles. Here -9c 850hpa to+3c by Wednesday and even Tuesday -7c 850hpa to +2.
They can't resolve how far south the cold air will come.


Tim
NW Leeds
187m asl

 My PWS 
tallyho_83
29 January 2021 19:10:02


Wow you really can set your watch to the Met Office,  as soon as they come on board  it goes Pete Tong.


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Yes Pete Thong it goes!


Last night the ECM 12z OP was a milder outlier and was corrected by this mornings 00z Op bringing the -10 to -12c upper air temp across the whole of the country by 240z and the Met Office mentions easterly's and then you see the 12z which struggles to bring the -5c across the country so we are back to square one after all this build up - So what next for the 00z ECM? - I shall check to see where the ECM Op run stands and see if it is a milder option or outlier.


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Gandalf The White
29 January 2021 19:11:42


 


I saw that? I guess the Daily Express will have to change their title.


We merely get the -5c uppers let alone the -10c to -12c uppers that covered the whole country on this mornings 00Z run.


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


Don't forget that the 00z Op didn't have much support in the ensemble suite.  I wasn't surprised to see a different evolution this evening. 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


tallyho_83
29 January 2021 19:16:03


 


Don't forget that the 00z Op didn't have much support in the ensemble suite.  I wasn't surprised to see a different evolution this evening. 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


True - in all fairness the 00z looked too good to be true. i wonder how much support the ECM 12z Op will have?


Also the annoying thing is that both GEM and ECM only go out to 240z and this (8th February) should be the coldest according to the GFS. 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Snow Hoper
29 January 2021 19:28:28
Ecm for here was generally middle ground until the 4th and then top end of the envelope out to the 8th.

https://www.ecmwf.int/en/forecasts/charts/web/classical_meteogram?facets=undefined&time=2021012912,0,2021012912&epsgram=classical_10d&lat=52.2833&lon=1.13333&station_name=Thorndon,%20United%20Kingdom&altitude=51 
Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
Jeff
  • Jeff
  • Advanced Member
29 January 2021 19:31:29


 


True - in all fairness the 00z looked too good to be true. i wonder how much support the ECM 12z Op will have?


Also the annoying thing is that both GEM and ECM only go out to 240z and this (8th February) should be the coldest according to the GFS. 


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


.No model should be allowed to share projections beyond +240. Life would be so much easier 


On the East/West Sussex Border
70m ASL
marting
29 January 2021 19:35:07

Ecm for here was generally middle ground until the 4th and then top end of the envelope out to the 8th.

Originally Posted by: Snow Hoper 

">https://www.ecmwf.int/en/forecasts/charts/web/classical_meteogram?facets=undefined&time=2021012912,0,2021012912&epsgram=classical_10d&lat=52.2833&lon=1.13333&station_name=Thorndon,%20United%20Kingdom&altitude=51


Yes, same for near here with ECM topping the ensembles as expected. So still chances on which way this can go, I am not sure what the trigger is apart from that low pressure at 120 hour s and whether it moved on and downwards or blocked by euro.


https://www.ecmwf.int/en/forecasts/charts/web/classical_meteogram?facets=undefined&time=2021012912,0,2021012912&epsgram=classical_10d&lat=53.2&lon=-2.91667&station_name=ManChester,%20United%20Kingdom&altitude=undefined


Martin


Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
Zubzero
29 January 2021 19:40:22

Nice 'n' zonal


White Meadows
29 January 2021 19:42:10
Met office currently mentions the S word x12 times throughout the forecasts on the homepage.
That has to be a record alone!
moomin75
29 January 2021 19:55:38

Quite a big change on the ECM 12z operational and unfortunately also on the Ensemble mean as well. The -5 isotherm was pretty much enveloping the whole of the UK on the 0z mean, but now it's conspicuous by its absence in the 7-10 day time frame.


One run and all that, and I daresay this is far, far from resolved.


But pretty much all of the 12z's have been two steps backwards. I am pretty sure this is the one this time and there is time for it to bounce back and deliver a notably cold 2-3 weeks of February, but the 12z's provide much needed caution to any aspirations of a severe spell.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
DPower
29 January 2021 20:19:08

 I was only saying a couple of days ago how it looked like the overnight and morning runs were far less amplified than the afternoon and evening runs and now its seems to have reversed lol. Whether or not this is the models struggling with conflicting signals be it la Nina, MJO, or downwelling, or which one will play the more dominant role in the synoptics to come. Or perhaps covid issues ie lack of data who knows but imho nothing has changed the models look all over the place this afternoon and I would not be surprised if we see much more amplified and nirvana, winter wonderland synoptics by the morning if not sooner.

Ally Pally Snowman
29 January 2021 20:36:55

I did say earlier that ensembles might flip mild if we were unlucky. But didn't expect it to be the ECM ensembles. You couldn't make it up. Hopefully they flip cold again tomorrow.


 


 


https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/ecmwfens_display.php?x=316&y=140&run=12&type=0&runpara=0


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
White Meadows
29 January 2021 20:39:50


 I was only saying a couple of days ago how it looked like the overnight and morning runs were far less amplified than the afternoon and evening runs and now its seems to have reversed lol. Whether or not this is the models struggling with conflicting signals be it la Nina, MJO, or downwelling, or which one will play the more dominant role in the synoptics to come. Or perhaps covid issues ie lack of data who knows but imho nothing has changed the models look all over the place this afternoon and I would not be surprised if we see much more amplified and nirvana, winter wonderland synoptics by the morning if not sooner.


Originally Posted by: DPower 

 


Give me a break 🤣

Hippydave
29 January 2021 20:54:58


I did say earlier that ensembles might flip mild if we were unlucky. But didn't expect it to be the ECM ensembles. You couldn't make it up. Hopefully they flip cold again tomorrow.


 


 


https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/ecmwfens_display.php?x=316&y=140&run=12&type=0&runpara=0


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Was a little surprised by the ECM ens being noticeably milder for down here, they've been pretty steady for the most part but a definite shift from this morning and last few days.


ECMWF 14-day ensemble weather forecast for Tunbridge Wells District | Meteologix.com


Time for it to move back of course so won't be calling anything for a while yet, I'd imagine by 12z on Sunday we'll be able to see if this is a blip or another FI only cold spell (down here of course, further North still looks good for cold regardless).  


FWIW the 12z GFS ens looked alright to me - reasonable suggestion of 4 days or so of cold air for the South in the mid term before a fairly strong signal for a warm up. 


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Ally Pally Snowman
29 January 2021 20:59:00


 


Was a little surprised by the ECM ens being noticeably milder for down here, they've been pretty steady for the most part but a definite shift from this morning and last few days.


ECMWF 14-day ensemble weather forecast for Tunbridge Wells District | Meteologix.com


Time for it to move back of course so won't be calling anything for a while yet, I'd imagine by 12z on Sunday we'll be able to see if this is a blip or another FI only cold spell (down here of course, further North still looks good for cold regardless).  


FWIW the 12z GFS ens looked alright to me - reasonable suggestion of 4 days or so of cold air for the South in the mid term before a fairly strong signal for a warm up. 


Originally Posted by: Hippydave 


 


I think there is every chance it could all flip cold tomorrow, models are in a state of chaos.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Shropshire
29 January 2021 21:05:55

Relying on heights coming out of the Arctic to link with heights to our North has a huge failure rate since 1987. Let's forget the GFS for the moment. The differences between the poorer outcomes from the ECM, GEM and UKMO at T144 are enough for now to give this legs to tomorrow.


 


From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
Brian Gaze
29 January 2021 21:11:54


 


 Saves me looking at the 12z updates today.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Good call. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
hobensotwo
29 January 2021 21:37:29
Let's hope the 18z and subsequent 00z's put this wobble to bed.
tallyho_83
29 January 2021 21:48:28


 


 


I think there is every chance it could all flip cold tomorrow, models are in a state of chaos.


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


I think so too as we are seeing flips each run and if one run goes mild another flips cold like we have seen of late - I doubt this would flip even more mild tomorrow - even the Met mention easterlies in their longer range forecast and surely the Met have access to more data than us!? Or don't they?


Who's anxious about the 18z model outputs?


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Shropshire
29 January 2021 21:50:36


 


I think so too as we are seeing flips each run and if one run goes mild another flips cold like we have seen of late - I doubt this would flip even more mild tomorrow - even the Met mention easterlies in their longer range forecast and surely the Met have access to more data than us!? Or don't they?


Who's anxious about the 18z model outputs?


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


They do, but events show us time and again that their longer range outlook is hostage to the vagaries of the changes that we view on the free NWP in that vital T120-168 range.


From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
White Meadows
29 January 2021 22:31:34


 


 


If the GFS gets pass the 240z mark and keep the easterly by 252 then its game on. We shall see.


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

Honestly?  Change your tune like a fart-whistler.

tallyho_83
29 January 2021 22:31:38
Just flicking through early stages of the 18z Op run up to 210z. Heights over Greenland look much weaker than that of the same time in the 12z 🏃‍♂️.
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Whether Idle
29 January 2021 22:32:38

18z throws up a very rare set up (if not frigidly cold) in deep FI, fascinating from an ivory tower academic model watching perspective at day 9, only for HP to settle at day 10.  To be honest, round here we really need a dry out, so that would be welcome.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
tallyho_83
29 January 2021 22:43:34
At least the 18z shows high pressure re appearing than the Atlantic winning! - At least so far. Had enough of rain. I think we all have really.
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
29 January 2021 22:47:37

At least the 18z shows high pressure re appearing than the Atlantic winning! - At least so far. Had enough of rain. I think we all have really.

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


Amen to that!


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.

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