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Gandalf The White
30 January 2021 18:22:09


 


It's not out yet is it?


Originally Posted by: Gary L 


Actually you're correct    I selected the 'latest run' but they use the CST time zone and I didn't notice it was still the 00z.


It is coming out on Weather.us and Meteociel now.


 


https://weather.us/model-charts/euro/2021013012/europe/sea-level-pressure/20210130-1200z.html


 



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Arbroath 1320
30 January 2021 18:36:16
ECM 12z trying a different route to screw things up?
GGTTH
hobensotwo
30 January 2021 18:38:06
The only consistent thing about the ecm at the moment is the inconsistentcy.
doctormog
30 January 2021 18:39:27
Yes, it is inconsistent however I get the impression that slowly it is moving in the “right” direction.
Heavy Weather 2013
30 January 2021 18:46:38
Didn’t ECM not buy into the last easterly attempt? I feel like we need it on board. The low to the west of Ireland seems to just get a bit stuck and then the Atlantic fires up. It it all looks a bit meh.

One for the bin
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
tallyho_83
30 January 2021 18:54:05
Ecm yet again looks inconsistent. GEM looks good.
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


doctormog
30 January 2021 18:58:39

Didn’t ECM not buy into the last easterly attempt? I feel like we need it on board. The low to the west of Ireland seems to just get a bit stuck and then the Atlantic fires up. It it all looks a bit meh.

One for the bin

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


After its major wobble 2 or 3 runs ago it is definitely edging back towards the easterly/more blocked scenario. If that trend continues it will be encouraging. If.


fairweather
30 January 2021 18:59:14

Can't get that enthusiastic now about the ensemble mean. Briefly gets down to -7C. Not quite as bad as it looks as during that period the long term means drops to -2C so although close to that it is actually still -4C.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
ballamar
30 January 2021 19:07:46
I cannot believe any of the outcomes at the moment! Although I do think GFS is closer on this run but at the extreme end
Fargo
30 January 2021 19:09:28

ECM 12z 240t goes back in time to the 0t:

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=ecm&var=1&run=12&time=0&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=24#mapref

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=ecm&var=1&run=12&time=240&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=24#mapref


Originally Posted by: Arbroath 1320 


 


Not unusual to see patterns like this reoccur, presumably the places that have received good falls from sliding fronts will continue to do so for the remainder of the Winter - Central areas up into Southern Scotland seem a good bet. Unless we get a decent Easterly fetch of course, although these often result in cool South Easterlies and an eventual half-heated retrogression to Greenland (toppler).


 


Having said that, GEM 12z is an absolute banger


North Herefordshire 180m asl
Gusty
30 January 2021 19:09:52

Experience tells us this ain't happening if just one of the models is not on board.  


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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Ally Pally Snowman
30 January 2021 19:17:55


Experience tells us this ain't happening if just one of the models is not on board.  


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


 


Indeed hard to bet against the ECM.  Tbh if it isn't going to snow can we have some extreme early warmth.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Arbroath 1320
30 January 2021 19:18:48


Experience tells us this ain't happening if just one of the models is not on board.  


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Very true Gusty. Perhaps the saving grace this time is that ECM is all over the place, so may be unreliable at present. 


GGTTH
Hippydave
30 January 2021 19:21:41


Can't get that enthusiastic now about the ensemble mean. Briefly gets down to -7C. Not quite as bad as it looks as during that period the long term means drops to -2C so although close to that it is actually still -4C.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


I sort of get what you mean and I know you're talking about the mean but I'd settle for the 40+ hours of snowfall for MBY followed by very cold surface air that the Op brings, which has a reasonable level of support amongst the ens too (certainly the period of cold uppers and precip).


Of some interest too is the noticeable amount of colder members right to the end of the run compared with the last 3-4 runs - just one ens set of course but if that trend continues and strengthens we might end up in a cold spell rather than a blip down here. 


ECM is interesting if somewhat alone in how it evolves things - I suspect if I lived in the Northern half of the country I'd stick the op run in the good pile though and it also looks good for continued cold for parts of the UK (not here sadly) post T240 too. 


IMO ECM needs to be looked at in the context of what the ENS show and it's inconsistency. Doesn't mean it's wrong but it'll need to pick a not nationwide cold evolution and stick to it before I view it as more than a potential spoiler rather than a definite one, assuming the other models stick to their guns. When you look at it's evolution in the critical T120/T144 range it's essentially by itself in how it develops the troughing. Also worth remembering that it moved from a poorer evolution in the last cold blip/spell too. A slight tweak to it's next op run and it'll show more widespread cold. ECM also took until very close to the onset of the last colder spell to reduce the uppers for down here, so it's not infallible.


All in all positive signs this evening for me particularly when you class ECM as a poor run, when in any other winter recently people would be drooling over the potential and the setup.


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
David M Porter
30 January 2021 19:22:03

The only consistent thing about the ecm at the moment is the inconsistentcy.

Originally Posted by: hobensotwo 


Indeed. IMO, we are still a long way off the position to need to reach to come to a firm conclusion one way or another, i.e run-to-run consistency and cross-model agreement.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
hobensotwo
30 January 2021 19:24:11


Can't get that enthusiastic now about the ensemble mean. Briefly gets down to -7C. Not quite as bad as it looks as during that period the long term means drops to -2C so although close to that it is actually still -4C.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


Yea, the GEFS ensembles turn this into a brief snap, as apose to an extended snap or spell. Which I will accept if it happens, as its better than nothing.


Plenty of time for things to change, but it's not ideal.

Rob K
30 January 2021 19:25:16


Can't get that enthusiastic now about the ensemble mean. Briefly gets down to -7C. Not quite as bad as it looks as during that period the long term means drops to -2C so although close to that it is actually still -4C.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


Yes since the 00Z this morning which had hardly any mild members from Feb 6th to 10th it has been a steady decline in excitement from the 6Z to now the 12Z. The uncertainty is growing and we know what that usually means - once a mild cluster starts to appear then it grows and becomes dominant over the space of three or four runs. By tomorrow's 0Z or 6Z you would expect the cold cluster to have vanished and we will be stuck with the mild cluster which make it a one-day wonder for the south.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Justin W
30 January 2021 19:28:27

Yep - clustersnap incoming. Imagine my surprise


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
moomin75
30 January 2021 19:28:56


 


 


Indeed hard to bet against the ECM.  Tbh if it isn't going to snow can we have some extreme early warmth.


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

I'd agree, if ECM isn't on board then it's highly unlikely to be as the GFS/GEM shows. As usual, it's more likely to end up as a blend of the models, which may end up being not too bad, but certainly no prolonged freeze. I also start looking for anomalous warmth once we reach February, and that 21c day we had in February just makes me yearn spring all the more.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Gusty
30 January 2021 19:31:06


 Indeed hard to bet against the ECM.  Tbh if it isn't going to snow can we have some extreme early warmth.


 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


..we don't need a calendar, we just need to look towards the central Med plume to tell us the clock is ticking and that Spring is starting the re-emerge to our south. 


I would so dearly love for us to get a swipe from the beast next weekend while we are still just about in the core of winter.


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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doctormog
30 January 2021 19:33:04
So in summary all the output looks good for cold, except the ECM which is less good but better than the previous couple of runs?

To be fair, even allowing top for the inconsistency the ECM 12z op is probably more likely than the GFS 12z op.
marting
30 January 2021 19:35:21

ECM right at the top of the ensembles this evening at day 6, so just wrong I suspect. The colder weather will arrive as per others is my best guess. The run stays warmer to the end, so a lot more colder options 


https://www.ecmwf.int/en/forecasts/charts/web/classical_meteogram?facets=undefined&time=2021013012,0,2021013012&epsgram=classical_10d&lat=53.2&lon=-2.91667&station_name=Chester,%20United%20Kingdom&altitude=12


Martin


Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
Whether Idle
30 January 2021 19:37:19


 


..we don't need a calendar, we just need to look towards the central Med plume to tell us the clock is ticking and that Spring is starting the re-emerge to our south. 


I would so dearly love for us to get a swipe from the beast next weekend while we are still just about in the core of winter.


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


The second week of February is IMHO the top ticket, the optimum week of winter. The best combination of thermal lag and low insolation.  Im with you insofar as Id also quite like a visitation from The Beast, but feel this one is less than likely to materialise as per the Nirvana depicted by the GEM 12z, for example.  The rule with easterlies is "what can go wrong almost always does go wrong".


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
hobensotwo
30 January 2021 19:39:17

So in summary all the output looks good for cold, except the ECM which is less good but better than the previous couple of runs?

To be fair, even allowing top for the inconsistency the ECM 12z op is probably more likely than the GFS 12z op.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


If the ecm 12z op has good agreement with its own ens members then I will agree with that comment, because the 12z gfs op was on the colder side of its peers at the crunch period.

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