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jhall
12 January 2020 21:37:58


If those hunting cold and snow just give up, like I have, then these sort of charts won't be quite so disappointing. Winter is a fail this year, and there's nothing in the models that makes me think otherwise. We are running over 3c above average in January, and Moscow is having its mildest winter in a generation.


Giving up is the only sane option left.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Maybe we should move to Alaska. Judging by the temperatures in Anchorage recently, as shown in the weather column of my daily paper, it's having its coldest winter in a generation.


Cranleigh, Surrey
BJBlake
12 January 2020 23:16:30
This might all collapse back to the 2019-2020 default zonal pattern, but there is a new volatility that there has not been since Movember, so I would not be surprised to see a flip-flopping dance with a cold incursion by the end of Jan, but it's tea leaves and straws only thus far...
Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
tallyho_83
12 January 2020 23:22:00

This might all collapse back to the 2019-2020 default zonal pattern, but there is a new volatility that there has not been since Movember, so I would not be surprised to see a flip-flopping dance with a cold incursion by the end of Jan, but it's tea leaves and straws only thus far...

Originally Posted by: BJBlake 


Yes let's hope so - even mild winters like 2013/2014 still saw some cold incursions - it's very rare or extremely rare or unheard of to go through 3 months of winter with the same old south westerly air!! Surely there has to be some colder potential even if this winter turns out well above average. What are your thoughts? I looked at the temps in strat @ 10hpa and if anything the temps are lowering and falling by +240 thus a stronger PV!! So strange.


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Gooner
13 January 2020 06:11:16

I have thrown the towel in this year , its dire , I think I have had to scrape the windscreen 3 times . Hardly any ground frost to speak about , nothing on the horizon at all.


Just gone through all ENS ( GFS) SHOCKING 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
13 January 2020 06:13:46


 


We might as well close this thread then until March 1st.



Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


 


Oh I am still lurking and we all know March and April can produce snow but January for sure is down the pan without a doubt - I hold out little hope for the rest of this winter , sadly.


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


BJBlake
13 January 2020 06:22:38


 


Yes let's hope so - even mild winters like 2013/2014 still saw some cold incursions - it's very rare or extremely rare or unheard of to go through 3 months of winter with the same old south westerly air!! Surely there has to be some colder potential even if this winter turns out well above average. What are your thoughts? I looked at the temps in strat @ 10hpa and if anything the temps are lowering and falling by +240 thus a stronger PV!! So strange.


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


Do you or anyone know when the QBO 28/ 29 months is up and turns easterly, as this would probably be enough to see a pattern change?


The biggest influence is the jet. It's fire-hose like thrashings are so unpredictable that any model past 5 days is very rapidly inaccurate. When it buckles or splits ther is a chance of cold incursions particularly from the Arctic even in predominantly zonal years, and as the days lengthen, the cold over the pole strengthens - as it is dark 24 hours there still,  so whilst the incursion might not precipitate the long 10-14 day Scandinavia HP cold spell of the winters of my youth (that Bert Ford and Bill Giles would refer to as a common winter blocking pattern), a two day + toppler with snow showers leading to 1" accumulations on low ground, sufficient to create a Christmas card scene is very possible, just from a buckling jet pattern. It would be really exceptional not to see such a pattern in the 3 winter months for sure. Not impossible but really exceptional. There is no doubt that the jet is generally more energetic on average than it was back in the decades of my youth, but with 0.5 degrees additional global heating that is hardly surprising, and a stronger jet is less likely to get blocked and for lesser time periods, logically. However, it is not impossible. I sense a pattern anomaly is not far away from the increased volatility in the models. The predicted jet pattern is all over the place.


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
Gooner
13 January 2020 06:54:57


 


Do you or anyone know when the QBO 28/ 29 months is up and turns easterly, as this would probably be enough to see a pattern change?


The biggest influence is the jet. It's fire-hose like thrashings are so unpredictable that any model past 5 days is very rapidly inaccurate. When it buckles or splits ther is a chance of cold incursions particularly from the Arctic even in predominantly zonal years, and as the days lengthen, the cold over the pole strengthens - as it is dark 24 hours there still,  so whilst the incursion might not precipitate the long 10-14 day Scandinavia HP cold spell of the winters of my youth (that Bert Ford and Bill Giles would refer to as a common winter blocking pattern), a two day + toppler with snow showers leading to 1" accumulations on low ground, sufficient to create a Christmas card scene is very possible, just from a buckling jet pattern. It would be really exceptional not to see such a pattern in the 3 winter months for sure. Not impossible but really exceptional. There is no doubt that the jet is generally more energetic on average than it was back in the decades of my youth, but with 0.5 degrees additional global heating that is hardly surprising, and a stronger jet is less likely to get blocked and for lesser time periods, logically. However, it is not impossible. I sense a pattern anomaly is not far away from the increased volatility in the models. The predicted jet pattern is all over the place.


Originally Posted by: BJBlake 


 


Pretty sure Gav mentions on one of his Videos that the QBO moves towards and Easterly in the next month or so , but that alone doesn't guarantee us anything 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
13 January 2020 07:18:14

Stormy this wee kwith tomorrow's 940mb off Rockall moving NW and decaying, then another 975mb for Faeroes on Friday. Cold zonal stuff in Scotland (mountain blizzards IMO) but hanging on to mild SW in the south. High pressure 1040mb centred over England Sun 19th - Wed 22nd, slack wind pattern so windscreen scrapers may get their opportunity, sinks southwards with another storm for the NW 970mb Mon 27th. Yesterday's retrogression and subsequent northerlies have disappeared.


ECM agrees with GFS above, though the HP from Wed 22nd is a little further north with some weak easterlies, not that they connect with any source of cold air.


GEFS temps up and down around the normal with general rain (snow over hills in the N?) until the 18th, then a dry spell with temps on the low side wrt normal in the S, but above normal in the N, until 25th Jan, by which time temps are becoming unpredictable and there is a little rain generally


Little comfort in the GEFS T >+300 for cold weather fans, even cherry picking is a thankless job.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
moomin75
13 January 2020 07:28:52


I have thrown the towel in this year , its dire , I think I have had to scrape the windscreen 3 times . Hardly any ground frost to speak about , nothing on the horizon at all.


Just gone through all ENS ( GFS) SHOCKING 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Welcome to my club Marcus.


It's been the worst winter I can recall. Simply no hope whatsoever.


As you say, I daresay we will see something wintry in March or April, when its nigh on useless, but for me, thoughts are turning to spring and the end of the 2019-20 gloomfest.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Brian Gaze
13 January 2020 07:41:19

Snow row counts were hitting 500+ last January even in London. This winter's highest to date was on 05/12 when 150 was reached.


https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/snowrow.aspx?type=daily&location=London#London


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
doctormog
13 January 2020 07:47:22
If the maximum value per day is 23 and the ensembles go out to day 16 how can the total snow row value reach 500?


Brian Gaze
13 January 2020 07:51:29

If the maximum value per day is 23 and the ensembles go out to day 16 how can the total snow row value reach 500?

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


There are 4 runs per day. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
doctormog
13 January 2020 07:55:48


 


There are 4 runs per day. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


So is the daily max value 92 then? “Inverness” is at a total of 226 currently but that appears to be the sum of a single ensemble set (00z) not the past 4?


Brian Gaze
13 January 2020 08:02:55


 


So is the daily max value 92 then? “Inverness” is at a total of 226 currently but that appears to be the sum of a single ensemble set (00z) not the past 4?


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Yesterday's total for Inverness was 1002. The latest ensemble set (00z) is at 226. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
doctormog
13 January 2020 08:25:12


 


Yesterday's total for Inverness was 1002. The latest ensemble set (00z) is at 226. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Okay, thanks.


David M Porter
13 January 2020 09:03:26

If there is one positive to be taken from this morning's output generally, it is that at least a temporary break from the recent very unsettled spell looks to be possible, if the ECM 00z op has it right. GFS seems to be thinking along the same lines too although it has the high a little further south than ECM.


We could well do with a drier spell here, even if it is still mostly mild. The ground here is fast starting to resemble swampland!


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
JACKO4EVER
13 January 2020 09:15:57
After a quick glance through its pants for colder weather fans, utter unremitting rubbish.
Ally Pally Snowman
13 January 2020 09:34:10


I have thrown the towel in this year , its dire , I think I have had to scrape the windscreen 3 times . Hardly any ground frost to speak about , nothing on the horizon at all.


Just gone through all ENS ( GFS) SHOCKING 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


I feel your pain but both this morning's gfs and especially ECM are at least cold and frosty. Which is a start . No sign of snow yet though.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
13 January 2020 09:37:26

Not exactly January 1795 but this is as cold as gfs has been all winter by some margin. 


 


 


 


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Roger Parsons
13 January 2020 09:51:20

After a quick glance through its pants for colder weather fans, utter unremitting rubbish.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


I'm no expert, Jacko4 - but looking over the available information it seem unlikely Lincolnshire will see any snow for January and February looks little better. Maybe a tad towards the back end. I had been pinning hopes of snow on February. I still am, but now it's February 2021.


I expect folks will soon start mumbling about the possibility of snow at Easter. No harm in hoping...


We've barely touched our supply of firewood.


Roger


 


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Gooner
13 January 2020 10:52:18


 


I'm no expert, Jacko4 - but looking over the available information it seem unlikely Lincolnshire will see any snow for January and February looks little better. Maybe a tad towards the back end. I had been pinning hopes of snow on February. I still am, but now it's February 2021.


I expect folks will soon start mumbling about the possibility of snow at Easter. No harm in hoping...


We've barely touched our supply of firewood.


Roger


 


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


 


February?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Roger Parsons
13 January 2020 10:59:25


February?


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Yes, Gooner - what do I need to add?


R.


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Rob K
13 January 2020 11:12:06


 


I'm no expert, Jacko4 - but looking over the available information it seem unlikely Lincolnshire will see any snow for January and February looks little better. Maybe a tad towards the back end. I had been pinning hopes of snow on February. I still am, but now it's February 2021.


I expect folks will soon start mumbling about the possibility of snow at Easter. No harm in hoping...


We've barely touched our supply of firewood.


Roger


 


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


What models are you looking at that go out to February?


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
ballamar
13 January 2020 11:13:24
Interesting end to GFS op run, think the focus in the thread is now too far ahead. Blocking is modelled for near future and some chilly weather will be upon us. This could change the whole dynamic, deflecting the usual flow in a favourable way. January is very much still possibly going to deliver some wintry weather
Rob K
13 January 2020 11:20:03
The focus is too far in the future... as always seems to be the way in this thread I think some people are living a month ahead of me as they already seem to know the model output for February on January 13th! Any winning lottery numbers would be gratefully received 🙂
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

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