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Bugglesgate
21 April 2020 19:29:09


First NHS worker, a 59 year old surgeon and father of four, has died at the hospital my wife works at.


Another death chalked up for the criminal lack of PPE for NHS and care workers.



Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


 


I think the "viral load" business is a killer (literally ! ) for front line workers.   Get a heavy dose of this wretched thing and it's not just  going to kill  elderly people with underlying conditions.


 


 


Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
The Beast from the East
21 April 2020 19:29:55


 


looks as though the Turkish government has been engaged in a massive cover-up:


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Yes, and other countries too like Russia and Pakistan. Crazy that we have allowed commercial flights to resume


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Chunky Pea
21 April 2020 19:34:25


 


He drove without a licence or insurance while already disqualified. Those offences alone are enough to get you sent to jail.


Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz 


The article specifically states that it he was jailed because he breached the restrictions. 


Seems like the state has now gone from passive to active hatred of the Irish people. Let's hope in time that that hatred is reciprocated. 


Current Conditions
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"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
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Saint Snow
21 April 2020 19:35:00


I think the "viral load" business is a killer (literally ! ) for front line workers.   Get a heavy dose of this wretched thing and it's not just  going to kill  elderly people with underlying conditions.


Originally Posted by: Bugglesgate 


 


Which is why proper and adequate PPE is essential. 


But Tory stooges keep trying to muddy the waters.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
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Aneurin Bevan
The Beast from the East
21 April 2020 19:36:38


it would not take much relaxing of restrictions to increase new infections and threaten the hospital capacity figure. All surmising as a lot on here but any relaxing may only last a month unless more capacity is created. But how much do you create?


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


We will find out what happens in other countries over the next few weeks, especially the US which is perhaps our best guide. Perhaps the sunshine and UV will help to keep a lid on things as well


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gavin D
21 April 2020 19:37:09

Regional data for new cases today in England


The 7 English regions 



  • London +418 (1.9%) 22,072

  • Midlands +450 (2.9%) 15,488

  • North West +460 (3.1%) 14,788

  • South East +778 (5.7%) 13,656

  • North East and Yorkshire +415 (3.2%) 13,057

  • East of England +235 (2.9%) 7,967

  • South West +184 (3.6%) 5,045


The 10 local areas with the highest cases



  1. Kent +195 (7.5%) 2,597

  2. Birmingham +51 (2.2%) 2,361

  3. Hampshire +92 (4.1%) 2,251

  4. Lancashire +74 (3.4%) 2,170

  5. Surrey +139 (6.6%) 2,100

  6. Essex +37 (1.9%) 1,929

  7. Hertfordshire +40 (2.1%) 1,904

  8. Sheffield + 53 (3.1%) 1,684

  9. Cumbria +33 (2.2%) 1,529

  10. Staffordshire +39 (3.0%) 1,287


The 10 local areas with the lowest cases



  1. Rutland +1 (7.7%) 13

  2. Isle of Wight +4 (5.5%) 73

  3. North East Lincolnshire +1 (1.1%) 93

  4. Hartlepool +6 (6.3%) 95

  5. Peterborough +10 (6.8%) 147

  6. Torbay +18 (12.2%) 147

  7. Herefordshire, County of +10 (6.3%) 159

  8. North Somerset +1 (0.6%) 169

  9. North Lincolnshire 171 - No change

  10. Bracknell Forest +16 (9.3%) 172

Phil G
21 April 2020 19:55:33


Regional data for new cases today in England


The 7 English regions 



  • London +418 (1.9%) 22,072

  • Midlands +450 (2.9%) 15,488

  • North West +460 (3.1%) 14,788

  • South East +778 (5.7%) 13,656

  • North East and Yorkshire +415 (3.2%) 13,057

  • East of England +235 (2.9%) 7,967

  • South West +184 (3.6%) 5,045


The 10 local areas with the highest cases



  1. Kent +195 (7.5%) 2,597

  2. Birmingham +51 (2.2%) 2,361

  3. Hampshire +92 (4.1%) 2,251

  4. Lancashire +74 (3.4%) 2,170

  5. Surrey +139 (6.6%) 2,100

  6. Essex +37 (1.9%) 1,929

  7. Hertfordshire +40 (2.1%) 1,904

  8. Sheffield + 53 (3.1%) 1,684

  9. Cumbria +33 (2.2%) 1,529

  10. Staffordshire +39 (3.0%) 1,287


The 10 local areas with the lowest cases



  1. Rutland +1 (7.7%) 13

  2. Isle of Wight +4 (5.5%) 73

  3. North East Lincolnshire +1 (1.1%) 93

  4. Hartlepool +6 (6.3%) 95

  5. Peterborough +10 (6.8%) 147

  6. Torbay +18 (12.2%) 147

  7. Herefordshire, County of +10 (6.3%) 159

  8. North Somerset +1 (0.6%) 169

  9. North Lincolnshire 171 - No change

  10. Bracknell Forest +16 (9.3%) 172


Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


Hi Gavin. Does this data have an historical run on these information series, or are you just extracting day by day. Thanks

Brian Gaze
21 April 2020 20:18:30

Sadly this doesn't surprise me. It could explain a few things too.


Public Health England admits coronavirus tests used to send NHS staff back to work are flawed


Memo warns of 'degraded' performance which means results are less reliable than first thought


Coronavirus tests given to thousands of NHS staff so they could return to work have been found to be flawed and should no longer be relied on, a leaked document reveals.


...


It raises the prospect that thousands of NHS nurses and doctors who were told they were free of coronavirus may have been sent back to work while they were contagious. In other cases, those found to be positive may assume they have developed antibodies to the virus when in fact they have never had it. 


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/21/public-health-england-admits-coronavirus-tests-used-send-nhs/


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
llamedos
21 April 2020 20:23:44


 


 


My issue isn't that they have made mistakes. They have made major mistakes, of course, but at the outset their arguments for taking the position they were seemed coherent. There's been a level of incompetence (the Turkish PPE farce being the most recent) subsequently, but this is an unprecedented situation.


There's an underlying problem since 2010 that the NHS is chronically under-resourced for political ideology reasons, stripping it of any capacity to cope with even relatively modest upticks in demand (see 'winter crisis' reports year after year). But whilst some shysters like Gove were around then, the main components of this Govt weren't in positions of power.


No, my point is that they are using taxpayer money to lie and manipulate social media (using fake/bot accounts - indefensible IMO) in order to wage a propaganda war to cover up and deny their mistakes, errors & incompetence. 


Such is the level of hold that SM seems to have with a large proportion of the electorate - especially when the falsehoods feed into the echo chamber of a person's prejudices, conspiracy theories and inaccurate opinions - that this prevents the government being properly held to account. As with Trump in the US, the government becomes able to 'get away with whatever they like', as a few carefully-crafted fake Tweets and FB posts appearing to come from impartial people (eg, fake NHS workers supporting Boris) will convince people desperate to be convinced that justified criticism the government is receiving isn't warranted.


Even at the most basic level, this is bad for democracy.


 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

You won't be surprised that I disagree with a lot of this.


The NHS has been under resourced and actually very badly managed way before 2010, although that date fits in well with political view points. That it hasn't improved or been better managed since then is a very different argument, which is something I'm inclined to agree with, but then again at GE's that's always a key manifesto pledge from would be heirs to the throne.


I'm not swayed nor do I believe that there has been any massive social media campaign to cover up Govt incompetence. If you wanted to explain away decision making along side instagram pics of KK fat arse you'd have the worst PR team in the world, and probably focused on the wrong audience.


We all know there have been failings and in a crises like this there always will be be. As I said, I hope that the new opposition party will offer some constructive criticism and new ideas. 


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Chunky Pea
21 April 2020 20:31:00

Just one example of the utter corruptness of our Government. 


https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0421/1132847-covid19-coronavirus-eu-migrant-workers/


"


The ability for migrant seasonal agriculture workers to continue harvesting fruit and vegetables in other member states was specifically requested by EU leaders, including Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, during a video conference on 26 March.


The previous day Minister for Agriculture Michael Creed also made a strong appeal during a virtual meeting of EU agriculture ministers for the continued free movement of labour and the need to avoid any disruption to agrifood supply chains due to border closures.


 


Fair enough, but when controversy arose:


https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0417/1132089-keelings-fruit-covid19/


 


And here he is, in all his glory, showing what good chums he is with the very company which needs all these eastern European workers to work for next to nothing for them.


https://twitter.com/BernardAKavana3/status/1251129606276632577


It's about who you know and having all your friends in the right places. 


 


 


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"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
doctormog
21 April 2020 20:31:17
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."?

Bloated bureaucracy and inefficient procurement practices are the bane of so many areas of the public sector.
Brian Gaze
21 April 2020 20:33:41

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."?

Bloated bureaucracy and inefficient procurement practices are the bane of so many areas of the public sector.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 As Ronald Reagan famously said. Unfortunately I sometimes  think the three most terrifying letters in the English language are N.H.S.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Ulric
21 April 2020 20:41:41

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."?

Bloated bureaucracy and inefficient procurement practices are the bane of so many areas of the public sector.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Yep, that's how the NHS delivers three times as much treatment per pound spent as private systems in the US.


"As soon as we abandon our own reason, and are content to rely on authority, there is no end to our troubles." - Bertrand Russell
https://postimg.cc/5XXnTCGn 
Gandalf The White
21 April 2020 20:42:35


More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study


A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.


The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.


https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


I read somewhere that Trump has a financial interest in the malaria drug.  Not that it could possibly influence what he says, of course.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Bugglesgate
21 April 2020 20:44:18


 


 As Ronald Reagan famously said. Unfortunately I sometimes  think the three most terrifying letters in the English language are N.H.S.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


There was a bit on the Home Service last night  (The World  Tonight) pitching into the Nightingale Hospitals.  It has to be said,  most of those doing so were anonymous but their basic argument was that the constriction was skilled staff and  sucking these out of existing hospitals   to the new ones  solved nothing.  The Nightingales  provide a load of beds, but  no staff. The inference was if we were stitching together people that had   bits blown off them due to war, they would be fine, not so good for speciality intensive care.  I  have no idea of the validity of this but there is a basic logic to the argument from a layman's point of view


 


On a  more positive note, I'm intrigued by the Oxford  Vaccine trials.  I'm a couple of years too old to be allowed   to take part, otherwise I would have signed up.


If it's proved to be successful, it could be a real game changer, both for  the current  mess and for the future.


 


 


 


 


Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
Ulric
21 April 2020 20:44:29


 


I read somewhere that Trump has a financial interest in the malaria drug.  Not that it could possibly influence what he says, of course.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Yup. He owns a slice of the company which makes it.


"As soon as we abandon our own reason, and are content to rely on authority, there is no end to our troubles." - Bertrand Russell
https://postimg.cc/5XXnTCGn 
Gandalf The White
21 April 2020 20:46:46


 


And Bozo exploiting his illness to get sympathy and hide away and allow his minions to take the flak for his decisions. He will suddenly emerge when the death rate drops next week


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I detest Johnson but even by your standards your comment is p**s poor. The guy spent about a week in ICU; he was seriously ill.  Trying to paint it as some devious plan is pathetic.



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


llamedos
21 April 2020 20:56:56

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."?

Bloated bureaucracy and inefficient procurement practices are the bane of so many areas of the public sector.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

You're so right Michael 


Until I retired I ran 2  businesses one of which we sold and 1 that is still holding on. During that tenure I was also involved in another business promoting town center regeneration which proved very beneficial to hundreds of businesses in the Borough until we questioned procurement policies. After 5 years our funding was withdrawn and the initiative we had created was taken back in house, because it was cheaper. Regeneration plans have now been scrapped and businesses failing everywhere and nothing to do with covid-19 


I have no sympathy with local councils bleating about lack of funds when there are so many councilors that have such a rich history of giving jobs to the boys.  


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Chunky Pea
21 April 2020 21:08:15


 


I detest Johnson but even by your standards your comment is p**s poor. The guy spent about a week in ICU; he was seriously ill.  Trying to paint it as some devious plan is pathetic.



Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Whether it is a devious plan or not, that fact remains that the entire western world has now embraced a sort semi-fascism. Wear people down enough and who knows, maybe we'll willingly embrace the real deal in the near future.


No modern state should be allowed to exercise this level of power over people. 


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"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
21 April 2020 21:08:44


 


Yup. He owns a slice of the company which makes it.


Originally Posted by: Ulric 


Depends who you believe.


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-profit-hydroxychloroquine/


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
fairweather
21 April 2020 21:21:28

One thing that did strike me as telling and sad on tonight's news was a nurse that said they felt alone and working with no direction. It got me to thinking who the hell does plan, direct, organise and support these people. Clearly the NHS is the responsibility of the Government (although you do wonder at the moment) but who exactly fulfills those aforementioned important functions at the hospital level? I don't recall any spokespeople in the media.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Northern Sky
21 April 2020 21:26:50


 


Whether it is a devious plan or not, that fact remains that the entire western world has now embraced a sort semi-fascism. Wear people down enough and who knows, maybe we'll willingly embrace the real deal in the near future.


No modern state should be allowed to exercise this level of power over people. 


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


I've read a few things like this, what do you think is the alternative? It seems to me this is nothing to do with "semi-fascism" it's actually about Human societies making a collective decision to try and save the lives of their citizens - peoples mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers and in some cases sons and daughters. It's an exceptional circumstance which means curtailing liberty for a short time, it has got nothing to do with fascism, semi or otherwise.

Brian Gaze
21 April 2020 21:44:01

Boris Johnson’s official spokesman said the prime minister has full confidence in Hancock and stands behind his pledge to get the UK to 100,000 coronavirus tests a day by the end of the month, despite only 19,000 being carried out on Monday. [source: Guardian]


Usually the beginning of the end isn't it?


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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llamedos
21 April 2020 21:47:49


Boris Johnson’s official spokesman said the prime minister has full confidence in Hancock and stands behind his pledge to get the UK to 100,000 coronavirus tests a day by the end of the month, despite only 19,000 being carried out on Monday. [source: Guardian]


Usually the beginning of the end isn't it?


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Probably, given that's a big ask from where we are today. 


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
JHutch
21 April 2020 21:58:40

Nightingale hospital in Docklands has only treated 41 patients so far with patients being turned away apparently. Shortage of critical care nurses is a big factor apparently which tallies with what i have been hearing too. Certainly needed building IMO as it was uncertain quite how big the surge in cases would be. Spare capacity could also be useful as we move forward to enable hospitals to take up more routine procedures?


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/nurse-shortage-causes-nightingale-hospital-to-turn-away-patients

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