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nsrobins
05 October 2020 11:28:09
If found it surprising that the broadcast media were touting a potential stormy Thursday this morning when more or less across the board the 00Z output has dropped the idea. The 06Z GFS now only has a shallow wave.
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gandalf The White
05 October 2020 11:52:10

If found it surprising that the broadcast media were touting a potential stormy Thursday this morning when more or less across the board the 00Z output has dropped the idea. The 06Z GFS now only has a shallow wave.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Maybe because a shallow wave feature isn't newsworthy? Plus, people will just blame the forecasters for 'getting it wrong again' instead of the usual suspects in the tabloid media.


😉


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Brian Gaze
05 October 2020 21:34:06

Just noticed there are a couple of cold runs in the GEFS 12z tonight.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
06 October 2020 07:06:40

The wave depression on Thu/Fri giving the models a headache. Now showing as two separate events, much less rain on Thursday than forecast 2 days ago and local to S England anyway; FAX for Friday looking as if the wave will develop further E, in southern N Sea, and be chased out of he way by a cold front from the NW


GFS - wraps both the above up in LP over Denmark by Sun 11th; N-lies to follow but yesterday's ridge of HP now only transient with LP developing on Atlantic and moving to UK Tue 13th 1005mb before another depression sets up W of Scotland Thu 15th and wallows around out there before running S to Biscay Wed 21st


GEFS - normal temp and wet in S) around Thu 9th but cooler and less wet in N; cool and dry for a few days before back to norm Thu 16th with big uncertainties (Brian posted a couple of cold runs above but you could also cherrypick warm ones) and rain intermittently from Tue 13th, no big amounts.


ECM - prolongs the ridge of HP in Atlantic from Sun 11th but places vigorous LP over Belgium Thu 15th (no hint of this on GFS) before agreeing with GFS about LP on Atlantic Fri 16th


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
idj20
06 October 2020 09:42:48

The 00z GFS has just p***ed on the idea of a settled mid-October while ECM is hanging onto it, but I expect that model to fall in line with GFS in subsequent runs. 

Let's see what the GFS 06z run has to say.  


Folkestone Harbour. 
Sevendust
06 October 2020 10:18:09


The 00z GFS has just p***ed on the idea of a settled mid-October while ECM is hanging onto it, but I expect that model to fall in line with GFS in subsequent runs. 

Let's see what the GFS 06z run has to say.  


Originally Posted by: idj20 


The 0z ensembles show three distinct rain spikes in line with upticks in 850's in the next week. 


Still looks quite unsettled to me 

ballamar
06 October 2020 13:35:20
Was that the first snow row for London in the GEFS?
Rob K
06 October 2020 15:28:12

Was that the first snow row for London in the GEFS?

Originally Posted by: ballamar 


Well spotted - P16, blink and you'll miss it! 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Bolty
06 October 2020 16:42:01

Two months too early for cold fans:



Scott
Blackrod, Lancashire (4 miles south of Chorley) at 156m asl.
My weather station 
Whether Idle
06 October 2020 17:51:26


 


Well spotted - P16, blink and you'll miss it! 


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


No, there was one yesterday too, p17 on the 12 z IIRC.


Just white noise really.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gooner
06 October 2020 18:12:22

Be happy with this sort of set up through Winter


 



Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Brian Gaze
06 October 2020 20:56:10

GEFS 35 day plots will be appearing on TWO very soon. Sample 850hPa plots below. 


1) The 35 day cycle takes NCEP approx 24 hours to complete. Therefore, updates on TWO will prob appear at about 7am with initiation the previous day. (So the plots below initiating on Mon 5th October are currently the latest)


2) The red shading shows the standard deviation which gives a measure of the spread. I can show all the individual ensemble members like on the 16 day charts but haven't yet decided whether it is worthwhile 


 



 



 


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
07 October 2020 06:51:37

Jetstream - A more or less W-E flow across the UK for the rest of this week before loops develop, over the N Sea Sat 10th with N-ly across UK with the loop moving off to the Med as a cut-off by Tue 13th. By that time jet is fragmented around the UK until new loop develops on Atlantic Sat 17th with benefit of S-ly flow before forming a cut-off over Ireland Tue 20th, this time broadening out rather than moving away Thu 22nd. Another big loop waiting over Greenland then.


FAX shows detail of what other forecasts agree on, namely that the wave tomorrow Thu will deepen and run across C England but more intense so rain affects all areas to the S. Any wave on Friday passing through quickly on the following NW-ly.


GFS - has recanted from yesterday and shows more interest in a ridge of HP in the Atlantic hanging on and sometimes properly across the UK but being nibbled at all the time, first LP over SE/Low Countries Tue/Wed 13th/14th (cf ECM yesterday) then Atlantic LP W of Ireland Sat 17th with centres at various times from SW Approaches to Hebrides during the following week.


GEFS - like yesterday, average temp and wet in the S now, becoming cool everywhere and slowly recovering to norm by Mon 19 Oct (slower recovery than yesterday and plenty of variation between runs). Brief dry period around Sun 11th after which frequent but not intensive rain throughout. In the N  cool and dry  now but back to norm sooner (Tue 13th) and dry period briefer, some bigger rainfall totals in some runs thereafter.


ECM - like GFS (but GFS has caught up with ECM rather than leading it)


 


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Russwirral
07 October 2020 09:23:42


GEFS 35 day plots will be appearing on TWO very soon. Sample 850hPa plots below. 


1) The 35 day cycle takes NCEP approx 24 hours to complete. Therefore, updates on TWO will prob appear at about 7am with initiation the previous day. (So the plots below initiating on Mon 5th October are currently the latest)


2) The red shading shows the standard deviation which gives a measure of the spread. I can show all the individual ensemble members like on the 16 day charts but haven't yet decided whether it is worthwhile 


 



 



 


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


Easier on the eye Brian, I like it.


 


The only issue will be in the winter when we get a crazy outlier of +10*c or similar which might not paint an alternative cluster picture.


Saying that I prefer this look to the other.


Saint Snow
07 October 2020 09:51:53


GEFS 35 day plots will be appearing on TWO very soon. Sample 850hPa plots below. 


1) The 35 day cycle takes NCEP approx 24 hours to complete. Therefore, updates on TWO will prob appear at about 7am with initiation the previous day. (So the plots below initiating on Mon 5th October are currently the latest)


2) The red shading shows the standard deviation which gives a measure of the spread. I can show all the individual ensemble members like on the 16 day charts but haven't yet decided whether it is worthwhile 


 



 



 


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


 


Is there no line for the operational? Or am I missing something?



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Brian Gaze
07 October 2020 11:12:02

 


Is there no line for the operational? Or am I missing something?


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Two reasons why it's not there:


1) The op run currently only goes out to 16 days 


2) Because the 35 day run only appears with the 00z cycle  and it takes 24 hours to complete there would be consistency issued with showing the GFS op run even out to 16 days, e.g. would it be today's 00z op run or yesterday's as that would match up with the GEFS data sets


However, the op run will continue to appear on the 16 day plots which update 00,06,12 and 18z, e.g.


https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx?run=na&lg=850&lglocation=london&charthour=006&chartname=ps_500hpa&chartregion=na-region&p=1&charttag=PS%20500hPa%20(GPDM)


 


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Gooner
07 October 2020 12:55:26

Big outlier but nice to see blocking



Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


The Beast from the East
07 October 2020 13:28:18

Not sure if this has already been mentioned


 




"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Brian Gaze
07 October 2020 14:45:14

On the subject of ECM 


 




Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Brian Gaze
07 October 2020 14:59:19


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Saint Snow
07 October 2020 15:27:50


 


Two reasons why it's not there:


1) The op run currently only goes out to 16 days 


2) Because the 35 day run only appears with the 00z cycle  and it takes 24 hours to complete there would be consistency issued with showing the GFS op run even out to 16 days, e.g. would it be today's 00z op run or yesterday's as that would match up with the GEFS data sets


However, the op run will continue to appear on the 16 day plots which update 00,06,12 and 18z, e.g.


https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx?run=na&lg=850&lglocation=london&charthour=006&chartname=ps_500hpa&chartregion=na-region&p=1&charttag=PS%20500hPa%20(GPDM)


 


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 



 


No probs, I just wondered (there's a control run shown separately) 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Heavy Weather 2013
07 October 2020 15:42:29




Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Brian - thanks for your time and effort on this. Super useful for the winter ahead. The new ensembles have been hard to get used to so this is a great tool.


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Brian Gaze
doctormog
07 October 2020 18:02:29
These are really nice additions Brian and will give an interesting insight into the model’s performance in the coming season(s).
Russwirral
07 October 2020 18:08:22
Back to the charts, and its great to see some blocking pop up. Some of these charts if they were say another 6 weeks ahead would be pretty wintry...

But its not that cold yet, and I reckon we will have a very cold, windy and damp end to Autumn. close but no cigar situation...

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