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Gusty
30 January 2021 13:58:29

The parallel also brings mild southerlies in fairly quickly.

Unfortunately we are finally starting to see some model consensus but it’s not the consensus I want to see: a 5 day cold spell before the high gets pushed southwards and eventually retreats S or SE into Europe and letting the jet cross the UK. Looking like 10th to 12th Feb as the end point with 5th to 6th the start point (from a southern perspective; northerners get a couple of bonus days at either end).

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


High pressure settling into Europe would suit me fine by mid February (so long as it doesn't migrate too far south). Around the 15th is the time that nature starts to stir and wake up. Its the time when we move away from core winter. It awakens our senses to the higher sunshine in the noon sky and the returning light. Its just a couple of weeks away now and to be honest it can't come soon enough. 


My expectation is for here is a 2 or 3 day (sub -8c 850Hpa easterly) before a drying pattern and hopefully some lighter and brighter days as we move rapidly towards Spring. 


 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
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Retron
30 January 2021 14:01:53


Indeed I was reading the Current Conditions thread from the BTFE in 2018 yesterday; heavy snow with temperatures of -4C right at the end of Feb!


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


TBF that required record low thicknesses for the time of year, i.e. a record cold airmass. This is the 12z GFS T+6 chart on the 28th Feb that year:



Get -15C 850s at any time of year and you'll get ice days and powder snow. It's just that that late in the year - it's almost unknown.


Of course, there have been a smattering of GEFS members showing -15C 850s over the past few days. It's a slim chance, but we know what would happen if it were to come off.


(-10C is, of course, what I look for in terms of non-marginal snow, hence the ensemble watch. The 6z GEFS, incidentally, also has 23 runs below -10C at some point for London, with one below -15C.)


This is as close as we get to that on the 6z output, pert 3 on the GEFS.



Leysdown, north Kent
Brian Gaze
30 January 2021 14:41:45


 


I can see where you are coming from to a degree, Brian. That said, background warmth and generally higher heights to the south of the UK didn't prevent memorable & long-lasting severe spells in two successive winters only just over a decade ago, plus the cold of early 2013 (March especially) and the Beast from the East right at the end of the 2017/18 winter.


The chances of severe sustained cold have reduced in recent times for sure. Having said that, I think that it is sometimes easy for people to forget that we don't have to go back decades to find the last instance of sustained and severe winter weather in this country, far from it.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


I'm not suggesting it's impossible! However, I see people beating themselves up about things like QBO, SSW, MJO etc and completely overlooking the very basics*. It goes without saying that if background temperatures are higher, heights to the south are higher and all other things are equal, then the chance of a very cold outbreak in the UK is reduced. At the moment that is being felt in the southern half of the UK. I don't make predictions about what things will be like in 20 years time, but the current reality can't be ignored when making a forecast. Some of the synoptics this winter have been stunning, but in the south they simply haven't delivered. 


*could be wrong but I believe even the Met factor in recent climatology in their seasonal output


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
idj20
30 January 2021 15:01:57


 


High pressure settling into Europe would suit me fine by mid February (so long as it doesn't migrate too far south). Around the 15th is the time that nature starts to stir and wake up. Its the time when we move away from core winter. It awakens our senses to the higher sunshine in the noon sky and the returning light. Its just a couple of weeks away now and to be honest it can't come soon enough. 


My expectation is for here is a 2 or 3 day (sub -8c 850Hpa easterly) before a drying pattern and hopefully some lighter and brighter days as we move rapidly towards Spring. 


 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 



That's cheered me up now. 

By mid-February I used to notice how effective the solar input was with tomato greenhouse heating. Whenever the noon sun was out by then, I was absolutely sweating cobs under glass as I get to see the first actual turning of tomatoes of the season.

I'm eager to see the end of this so-called "deep winter" (more like an extension of Autumn, really) and the latest runs fills me with hope. But until then, there's still a good week or so of cold damp windy muck to get through first.


Folkestone Harbour. 
fairweather
30 January 2021 15:37:31


 


I can see where you are coming from to a degree, Brian. That said, background warmth and generally higher heights to the south of the UK didn't prevent memorable & long-lasting severe spells in two successive winters only just over a decade ago, plus the cold of early 2013 (March especially) and the Beast from the East right at the end of the 2017/18 winter.


The chances of severe sustained cold have reduced in recent times for sure. Having said that, I think that it is sometimes easy for people to forget that we don't have to go back decades to find the last instance of sustained and severe winter weather in this country, far from it.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


I think the events of 2008 -2018 made it a good  decade. But here, in a historically reasonably snowy area, not much real depth of snow, no deep drifting snow and not that long lasting but the best 10 years in a 30 year span i agree. But either side of that was dire. You could easily beat those in terms of snow depth every decade in the previous 30 years, 1960-1990. You didn't go several years without a snow flake to be seen in between the good years either. That's the problem.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
nsrobins
30 January 2021 15:52:09
ICON is an improvement next weekend with robust link to the AH. Interestingly the spit of energy around Iceland helps to reinforce the low crossing the Atlantic and if it ran post 180 we’d probably see the low cutting under the Scriceland high
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Jiries
30 January 2021 15:52:43


 


High pressure settling into Europe would suit me fine by mid February (so long as it doesn't migrate too far south). Around the 15th is the time that nature starts to stir and wake up. Its the time when we move away from core winter. It awakens our senses to the higher sunshine in the noon sky and the returning light. Its just a couple of weeks away now and to be honest it can't come soon enough. 


My expectation is for here is a 2 or 3 day (sub -8c 850Hpa easterly) before a drying pattern and hopefully some lighter and brighter days as we move rapidly towards Spring. 


 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Notice there been very lacking of big HP over us this winter and never lasted more than few days compare to 1-2 weeks of dry weather any time of the winter even in zonal spells get HP in between.  With the charts showing extreme warmth further south I do hope that will come here after Feb to give us early warmth and prolonged dryness follow by hot dry summer to dry out completely.  1995 done that before.

Schnow in Peace
30 January 2021 16:06:09

Looking at today's output so far the GEM shows what happens if the cards fall right, GFS 6Z worst case scenario late on and ECM some kind of half way house. The 240 chart there at least has the high well formed to the NE with the chance of warm S or SE winds to blow it up and no lurking shortwaves (IIRC)  


To add my twopennorth to the long term factors at work, as well as extra Atlantic energy that bloating HP to the South makes it incrementally harder over time to get lows to undercut any block in a favourable position - leaving it more vulnerable to collapse and less able to retrogress. Also for cold air to be in place before systems advancing from S or SW. 


On a more positive note, very extreme -NAO patterns like 2009 2010 and 2013 still seem to be able to eradicate the execrable thing-at least temporarily. 


Now for the 12Z runs


 

ballamar
30 January 2021 16:10:04
Lovely run so far from GFS decent position of Scandi high cold incoming
Heavy Weather 2013
30 January 2021 16:14:21
I’m liking this run ALOT more on GFS. Already a better feed into the SE
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Gusty
30 January 2021 16:18:26

I'm very happy with the GFS 12z. Although its into FI it is very nice to see -10's reaching the SE at 180 rather than 240.



Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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Jiries
30 January 2021 16:18:56

I’m liking this run ALOT more on GFS. Already a better feed into the SE

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


Yep, -10C uppers on Saturday toward Midlands so it all looking good a bit further south so south UK should join it.

Joe Bloggs
30 January 2021 16:22:32


I'm very happy with the GFS 12z. Although its into FI it is very nice to see -10's reaching the SE at 180 rather than 240.



Originally Posted by: Gusty 


You might get a few flakes from that Steve! 😀



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Heavy Weather 2013
30 January 2021 16:24:19
This is excellent for the SE contingent.

Bitter strong easterly winds.

www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPUK12_192_2.png

Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Gooner
30 January 2021 16:25:01

12z's ok so far .................excellent Met update too , best of the Winter , they are clearly seeing a cold Feb 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Ally Pally Snowman
30 January 2021 16:25:59

Yes nice prolonged easterly on the GFS. Looks like it would produce significant snow showers in the SE 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
doctormog
30 January 2021 16:27:32
Are people enjoying the rollercoaster ride? It will be interesting how mild the further reaches of the 12z GFS op get based on the last couple of runs.
ballamar
30 January 2021 16:29:01


Yes nice prolonged easterly on the GFS. Looks like it would produce significant snow showers in the SE 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


I have missed the term streamers apart from the rain ones we have had this winter. Looking good

Jiries
30 January 2021 16:31:04

This is excellent for the SE contingent.

Bitter strong easterly winds.

www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPUK12_192_2.png

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


-12C uppers here so expecting -3 to -2C day time on Sunday and -1 on Saturday.  

Rob K
30 January 2021 16:35:23
Milder uppers soon creep into the SE thanks to that southeasterly bend to the isobars. Most in the SE would have seen some snow by then though.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
ballamar
30 January 2021 16:36:20

Milder uppers soon creep into the SE thanks to that southeasterly bend to the isobars. Most in the SE would have seen some snow by then though.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


will be a cold SE though - the uppers will not be as significant 

roadrunnerajn
30 January 2021 16:37:19

Yes the SE could do well IF the latest GFS 12z comes to fruition. I would expect it to be dry and cold down here in the SW however.


Germoe, part of the breakaway Celtic Republic.
Arbroath 1320
30 January 2021 16:37:23

The key as ever is keeping that Azores high out the way. Looks like a full house of 12zs ops are managing it so far. ECM to come on board I wonder?


GGTTH
doctormog
30 January 2021 16:39:28
The GEM is also living up to its name for some on its op run this evening,
Polar Low
30 January 2021 16:39:36

White out conditions for a time s/e England around 190 becoming very hazardous for a time 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/precipitations/198h.htm




Yes nice prolonged easterly on the GFS. Looks like it would produce significant snow showers in the SE 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

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