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DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
10 February 2020 07:04:55

This mornings GFS - the very definition of zonal flow for the foreseeable and beyond....
No sign of a pattern change. All tea leaf hints gone again for now.

Originally Posted by: BJBlake 


Quite.


GFS has re-instated LP on Thursday (995 mb C England) and goes on with more LP centres on Sat 15th (935 mb Hebrides), and Sun 23rd (965 mb Shetland). For the week in between there is HP to the south and LP to the north generally, but close enough together for strong winds and/or W-ly gales at any time. ECM agreeing.


GEFS for south cool to Thu 13th.milder to 17th, then less agreement but not far from normal - if anything below that at first and above later. Wet 13th- 17th, occasional rain thereafter. Similar elsewhere; wetter in the west, cooler in Scotland, much as expected from zonal flow.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
David M Porter
10 February 2020 08:27:24


 


What you say is true. I remember in the last week of January I said, based on the charts, it couldn't be a special winter. That was because there were no hints for 10 days after that of cold and as there would only then be three weeks of winter left that would have to have been of epic proportions to make the winter memorable. Nevertheless I saved that days London 850hPa ensembles and at ten day on they aren't even vaguely close to reality. As ever there was total uncertainty but the middle of next week was generally mild or very mild, no hint of what could be the snowiest spell of the winter. I have done this exercise a few times now over the years and it has rarely been right at T+10-14 days and often it is about as opposite to the prediction it could be. So it can always give decent cold spell at more than 10 days whatever the charts say.


What we do have to accept is that climate change is kicking in and they will be less frequent anyway as the stats clearly show.


 


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


Wrt your final sentence,  we shall see what happens when the AMO returns to its negative phase; I believe from what I have read elsewhere that it is predicted to do this at some point later this decade.


That aside, I agree with your post.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Brian Gaze
10 February 2020 08:56:31

Sorry for OT but just to add to the seasons are getting later nonsense here are the last 10 Aprils:


2019: 9.1
2018: 9.8
2017: 8.9
2016: 7.5
2015: 9
2014: 10.2
2013: 7.5
2012: 7.2
2011: 11.8
2010: 8.8


1961 - 90 CET 7.9C


So in the last 10 years we have had 3 Aprils which were slightly colder than average. All the others have been 0.9C or more above.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
LeedsLad123
10 February 2020 09:03:10

The magnolia tree in my neighbour’s garden is already budding and last year it was already in flower by March.

There have been a couple of cold March’s but overall they’ve been increasingly warm like any other month of the year. Have we forgotten the exceptional March of 2012 already?


 


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.
Rob K
10 February 2020 12:03:48


Sorry for OT but just to add to the seasons are getting later nonsense here are the last 10 Aprils:


2019: 9.1
2018: 9.8
2017: 8.9
2016: 7.5
2015: 9
2014: 10.2
2013: 7.5
2012: 7.2
2011: 11.8
2010: 8.8


1961 - 90 CET 7.9C


So in the last 10 years we have had 3 Aprils which were slightly colder than average. All the others have been 0.9C or more above.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


My point was really that the traditional spring months seem to have warmed less than the winter months, making them less exceptionally mild. I don't have the time to crunch the numbers but I think DJF have probably warmed more than MA, although of course the exceptional April 2011 and Dec 2010 might spoil those stats!


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
picturesareme
10 February 2020 13:17:08


The magnolia tree in my neighbour’s garden is already budding and last year it was already in flower by March.

There have been a couple of cold March’s but overall they’ve been increasingly warm like any other month of the year. Have we forgotten the exceptional March of 2012 already?


 


Originally Posted by: LeedsLad123 


Early march is the normal time for them. Regardless of how mild or cold it might be.

Russwirral
10 February 2020 16:46:28

GFS run ending differently, an interesting occluded front stalls over the UK bringing snow to hills.


 


But interestingly could impact the HP to our east.  Maybe the chance of a Scandi HP to finish?  


 


 


 


.....update: Nope


JACKO4EVER
10 February 2020 18:52:40
Some worrying developments for the end of the week, another storm whilst not as bad as Ciara, could bring down further trees and power lines that have been weakened.
In the meantime plenty of wintry showers packing into North West Scotland and Northern Ireland
Hungry Tiger
10 February 2020 20:37:32

Some worrying developments for the end of the week, another storm whilst not as bad as Ciara, could bring down further trees and power lines that have been weakened.
In the meantime plenty of wintry showers packing into North West Scotland and Northern Ireland


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Keep tabs on this one - Have heard a little. Anyone got more info on this.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


roadrunnerajn
10 February 2020 20:56:12

The SW region weather forecast were sounding concerned about this coming weekend saying it could be as bad as Ciara.


Germoe, part of the breakaway Celtic Republic.
10 February 2020 21:14:31


 


Keep tabs on this one - Have heard a little. Anyone got more info on this.


 


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


My MeteoGroup app which was showing a rather miserable but uneventful weekend with steady rain is now showing 45mm of rain from late Friday to early Monday with wind gusts inland of 53mph at my location. Nowhere near as bad as yesterday wind wise but pretty grim. Flooding could become an increasing concern given there is another spell of very wet weather expected on Thursday morning.


ICON 12z just about shows the start of the storm on Saturday. The midday chart has very heavy rain across northern and western areas with snow on the Scottish mountains. 


http://modeles12.meteociel.fr/modeles/icon/runs/2020021012/iconeu_uk1-1-120-0.png?10-16


Centre of the low is well under 940mb albeit off to the northwest still at this point


http://modeles12.meteociel.fr/modeles/icon/runs/2020021012/iconeu_uk1-2-120-0.png?10-16


Does look rather ominous although plenty of time for things to change.

BJBlake
10 February 2020 23:31:59


 


My point was really that the traditional spring months seem to have warmed less than the winter months, making them less exceptionally mild. I don't have the time to crunch the numbers but I think DJF have probably warmed more than MA, although of course the exceptional April 2011 and Dec 2010 might spoil those stats!


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


You might have a point there. Brian's stats point to an overall warming conclusively, but it may well be that the core winter months have warmed more than the ends. I have noticed that the Met Office prediction of cold spells increasingly likely in spring seems to have been borne out, but I would say too that we have had cold spells in November as frequently as we have had in March, when the core of the winter has been mild. 


However - over all - temperatures are warmer, weather more mobile and zonal, and window of proper winter shorter. 


Great 1 hour blizzard in North Norfolk today though, deposited a layer and chilled the air under it to 0.5 degrees. Best chance of winter weather - local, heavy showers doing just this.


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
11 February 2020 06:56:39

The jwt won't go away! A 200mph+ streak going on now, and neatly timed to coincide with the next two weekends, the 16th across England and the 23rd across N Scotland, with some breaking up in between. Even at the end of the run Thu 27th there's a streak off Greenland which then swings south at nearly the same speed over the UK. Settled weather - blink and you've missed it!


GFS not as pessimistic - Sun 17th LP well north (935 mb Bailey) though MetO forecast brings heavy rain down to the South Coast more or less non-stop Sat & Sun (maybe a flood thread needed if this verifies) after which a rather mobile area of HP hangs around the south through to 27th. ECM agrees. FAX has  this weekend's storm at 939mb and closer to N Ireland with severe gales covering the country again.


GEFS cool at first, mild with rain 13th - 17th, then brief drop in temps after which most runs mild and dry. That's for the S; less rain in NE but temps in Scotland closer to normal throughout.


 


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Russwirral
11 February 2020 09:26:01
Overnight wed - thurs presents another interesting snow potential for areas north of the midlands.

The positioning of the Low is key, with some models bringing alot of snow, others just a central belt of scotland affair.

Best period of the winter for cold weather fans. Its kinda arrived under the radar!
squish
11 February 2020 16:38:43

Interesting new twist on the 12z!


https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU12_240_1.png


 


D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
Gavin P
11 February 2020 17:00:07


Interesting new twist on the 12z!


https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU12_240_1.png


 


Originally Posted by: squish 


That's got outlier written all over it?


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
doctormog
11 February 2020 17:02:01


 


That's got outlier written all over it?


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


Hopefully. 


DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
12 February 2020 07:19:14

Strong jetstream is now the norm; having just got rid of one 200+mph streak with Ciara, we now have another on Sat 15th powering storm Dennis, then again on Fri 21st and close to that figure on Mon 24th and Thu 27th, not that it goes away in between.


GFS has LP tomorrow, Dennis at the weekend (930 mb as it approaches), doesn't make much of the jet affecting the UK on 21st and 24th with LP well off to the NW then but brings in 960mb on Thu 27th followed by northerly gales. HP hanging around the south esp Thu 20th but less prominent than shown yesterday. 


ECM the same at first but makes more of the jet on Fri 21st with 945mb Shetland the following day.


GEFs ens mild and wet to 17th, cool and dry(ish) to 20th then intermittent rain and the mean temps near normal (less mild than yesterday's forecast in the S) but with plenty of variability for the cherrypickers.


 


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Hippydave
12 February 2020 08:58:51

ECM 240 chart kind of sums this winter up really - a strong PV, westerly flow, unsettled. More than a little depressing given it's showing the 22nd Feb. Any remember November and the comments about the disconnect between the strat and the troph meaning the PV couldn't get organised


Nearer term and GFS making a bit more of the winds Saturday down here, with a pulse of 70MPH gusts along the coast late Saturday in to early Sunday. Before that pulse there's quite a wide area in the South/Midlands that gets 60 MPH or so gusts. Scotland less windy but still some gusts of 50 or so.


There's a fair bit of rain around too and I suspect flooding will be an issue for some - there's a feeder stream/river for the Medway on my drive to work that's flooded all the fields up to the road and a few other parts I noticed were underwater again after Sundays rain. 


GFS ens do seem to have decided the exceptionally mild last 3rd or so of February is less likely, with more in the way of unsettled weather and temps fluctuating around in an unsettled flow. 


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
JACKO4EVER
12 February 2020 16:42:59
A cool outlook at times, and the possibility of quite a bit of snow fall from the Pennines northwards overnight tonight and tomorrow morning.
doctormog
12 February 2020 17:21:50
Yes and the models and indeed regional forecasts are going for a minimum of around -9°C in parts of the Highlands over the snow cover. The wind and lack of snow will keep the temperatures up here nicely.

Beyond then just more of the same tedious westerly mobile stuff.
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
12 February 2020 20:12:14

Yes and the models and indeed regional forecasts are going for a minimum of around -9°C in parts of the Highlands over the snow cover. The wind and lack of snow will keep the temperatures up here nicely.

Beyond then just more of the same tedious westerly mobile stuff.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Well at least the arctic hares and ptarmigan will be breathing a temporary sigh of relief.


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Argyle77
13 February 2020 01:07:32
Big Northerly on gfs.And some much colder runs showing on the ensembles.
Maybe all this bottled up Arctic air is going to flood South just as Spring begins.

Let's hope it's onto something as still not even a flake here this winter.
Heavy Weather 2013
13 February 2020 05:56:11
The op 0z run shows a conserving picture for Sunday for the SE:

www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPUK00_0_19.png

Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
BJBlake
13 February 2020 06:09:49

Big Northerly on gfs.And some much colder runs showing on the ensembles.
Maybe all this bottled up Arctic air is going to flood South just as Spring begins.

Let's hope it's onto something as still not even a flake here this winter.

Originally Posted by: Argyle77 


 


yes - the GFS is teasing us again...may be this time it will verify? It's all very mobile though a and the jet is in a summertime high latitude. The cool air it shows heading into Southern Europe, and N. Africa, does seem to set up a Med low, but I'll be surprised if any of this FI stuff is the same on the next run....


 


Still, straws are all we've had to clutch all winter...


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL

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