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GezM
  • GezM
  • Advanced Member
09 March 2024 17:59:01

Ifear that when winter has been spring, and spring turns out to be summer, that summer will be Bahrain or Spain.

Originally Posted by: BJBlake 



Somehow I don't think Bahrain summer is happening. Spanish summer sounds great to me! Perhaps not Seville but Barcelona would be fine.
Living in St Albans, Herts (116m asl)
Working at Luton Airport, Beds (160m asl)
Ally Pally Snowman
10 March 2024 05:28:02
Well the GFS 0z would probably break the March CET record.  Incredible warmth .
 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
10 March 2024 06:21:50
The GFS 0z Op is a big outlier sadly.
But it still isn't the most extreme run this morning.  GEM P11 manages to get 20c 850s to the UK on 20th March. Not sure when the earliest we've had 20c 850s but its probably June.

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gem&var=2&run=0&time=246&lid=P11&h=0&mv=0&tr=6#mapref 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
The Beast from the East
10 March 2024 09:43:46

The GFS 0z Op is a big outlier sadly.
But it still isn't the most extreme run this morning.  GEM P11 manages to get 20c 850s to the UK on 20th March. Not sure when the earliest we've had 20c 850s but its probably June.

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gem&var=2&run=0&time=246&lid=P11&h=0&mv=0&tr=6#mapref 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



This coming Wed looks warm in the south if we can avoid cloud. After that very wet for a while but mild. I think all monthly CETs are now under threat these days from now on. The politicians will do nothing until something disastrous happens, by which time they wont be able to do anything other than seal borders to stop climate migration 

 
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Hungry Tiger
10 March 2024 14:13:20

The GFS 0z Op is a big outlier sadly.
But it still isn't the most extreme run this morning.  GEM P11 manages to get 20c 850s to the UK on 20th March. Not sure when the earliest we've had 20c 850s but its probably June.

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gem&var=2&run=0&time=246&lid=P11&h=0&mv=0&tr=6#mapref 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



What sort of temperatures would we be looking at with the likes of that.
I reckon 27C. The March record I think is 25C.

 
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Ally Pally Snowman
10 March 2024 15:06:46

What sort of temperatures would we be looking at with the likes of that.
I reckon 27C. The March record I think is 25C.

 

Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 



Hard to say but north of 25c for sure if sunny. Obviously incredibly unlikely but GFS also sniffing out a heat spike around the 21st.

 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Bolty
10 March 2024 15:20:33
Blimey, that chart would be quite something if it came off! Never mind feeling like the spring equinox, it would be feeling like the summer solstice minus the daylight. We'd definitely see at least 25/26°C widely across the country, with some of the more favoured spots getting into the upper twenties. It won't happen, but it's fun to speculate with these things.

As for records, the current March record was set back in the 1960s. Maybe not this time around, but I get a feeling we're going to see that smashed in the next few years. The same goes for the April record, which has two things to consider; it was set in the 1940s and it was mid-month, not in the final week. A potent plume in the final week of April would easily do it.
Scott
Blackrod, Lancashire (4 miles south of Chorley) at 156m asl.
My weather station 
Chunky Pea
10 March 2024 15:41:22

Blimey, that chart would be quite something if it came off! Never mind feeling like the spring equinox, it would be feeling like the summer solstice minus the daylight. We'd definitely see at least 25/26°C widely across the country, with some of the more favoured spots getting into the upper twenties. It won't happen, but it's fun to speculate with these things.

As for records, the current March record was set back in the 1960s. Maybe not this time around, but I get a feeling we're going to see that smashed in the next few years. The same goes for the April record, which has two things to consider; it was set in the 1940s and it was mid-month, not in the final week. A potent plume in the final week of April would easily do it.

Originally Posted by: Bolty 



I think even in colder climate periods, that max records were every bit as achievable as the are today, perhaps even more so. Oceans were colder, therefore less moisture in the atmosphere, which allowed greater swings between highs and lows. In today's moisture infused climate, wild swings in temp are less noticeable, but average minima is definitely taking the biggest hit. A good proportion of the 'underlying warming' going on today is down to higher overall minima than the slower rising trend of mean maxima. 
Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Nick Gilly
10 March 2024 16:39:44
20C 850s in March would be utterly insane.

Thinking about it, did the UK even see 20C uppers at all before the 21st century? I seem to remember 15C uppers were considered exceptional back in the day.
Retron
10 March 2024 17:32:56


Thinking about it, did the UK even see 20C uppers at all before the 21st century? I seem to remember 15C uppers were considered exceptional back in the day.

Originally Posted by: Nick Gilly 


You've got a good point there - and the obvious suspect (1976) didn't see anything above 15C at 850. Indeed, 850s in much of summer 1976 look quite cool to modern eyes, especially during August, it seems to have been the very dry ground and prolonged high pressure that did it.

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/reanalysis.php?uur=1800&var=2&nmaps=24&map=1&model=noaa&jaar=1976&maand=07&dag=03 

In 1990 850s reached the giddy heights of 16C, briefly.

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/reanalysis.php?uur=1800&var=2&nmaps=24&map=1&model=noaa&jaar=1990&maand=08&dag=03 

There was a 17C over Kent in 1957:

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/reanalysis.php?jaar=1957&maand=6&dag=29&uur=1800&var=2&map=1&model=noaa 

...and an 18C just brushing Cornwall in 1948:

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/reanalysis.php?jaar=1948&maand=7&dag=28&uur=1800&var=2&map=1&model=noaa 

The physical (as opposed to model!) record is 24.4C, quite possibly reaching 25C as far as I can tell...

http://weather.uwyo.edu/cgi-bin/sounding?region=europe&TYPE=TEXT%3ALIST&YEAR=2022&MONTH=07&FROM=1812&TO=1900&STNM=03808 

https://images.meteociel.fr/im/75/21296/6_7UKxnm2.GIF 
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Leysdown, north Kent
Chunky Pea
10 March 2024 17:37:58
Worth keeping in mind, Retron, that those reanalysis charts are of very low resolution, so unlikely to capture the more extreme ends. (This is something I have noticed in their wind speed and temp data too - extremes on either side tend to be shaved off)
Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Brian Gaze
10 March 2024 17:40:07
The highest 850hPa temperature in the UK during the 20th Century that I'm aware of occurred on 8th September 1988. 21C briefly touched the south coast. 

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/reanalysis.aspx?year=1988&month=Sep&dom=08&var=tmp®ion=Eur&level=850&hour=00 

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Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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Spring Sun Winter Dread
10 March 2024 17:49:43
I've thought for a while that the CET record for the whole of March is overdue to be beaten now, as 9.2C now looks tame compared to the 9.7C of Dec 2015 and the 10.1C of Nov 1994 (give or take whatever small adjustments have been made )
With our modern climate and the right synoptics 10.5C is surely doable but don't think this year is the one as we've started too cool. 
Retron
10 March 2024 17:57:00

The highest 850hPa temperature in the UK during the 20th Century that I'm aware of occurred on 8th September 1988. 21C briefly touched the south coast.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Incredibly the Wyoming soundings for Camborne go back that far!

And well spotted, Camborne recorded 21.4. It fell to just 12 only 12 hours later. I can only imagine the excitement had we all been online back then...

http://weather.uwyo.edu/cgi-bin/sounding?region=europe&TYPE=TEXT%3ALIST&YEAR=1988&MONTH=09&FROM=0800&TO=0812&STNM=03808 


03808 Camborne Observations at 00Z 08 Sep 1988


PRES HGHT TEMP DWPT RELH MIXR DRCT SKNT THTA THTE THTV
hPa m C C % g/kg deg knot K K K

1005.0 88 20.0 16.1 78 11.58 150 20 292.7 325.8 294.8
1000.0 132 20.6 15.6 73 11.26 151 20 293.8 326.1 295.7
996.0 167 21.0 15.0 69 10.87 152 21 294.5 325.9 296.4
991.0 211 24.2 18.2 69 13.45 153 21 298.1 337.4 300.5
946.0 617 21.8 8.8 43 7.56 164 25 299.7 322.3 301.0
913.0 926 24.6 2.6 24 5.08 173 28 305.6 321.4 306.5
850.0 1549 21.4 2.4 29 5.38 190 34 308.6 325.5 309.6
828.0 1775 20.4 2.4 30 5.52 191 34 309.8 327.2 310.9
700.0 3193 8.6 -5.4 37 3.67 195 33 312.0 323.9 312.7
544.0 5213 -9.3 -14.3 67 2.34 206 42 314.0 321.8 314.4
500.0 5860 -13.9 -18.9 66 1.73 210 45 316.0 321.9 316.4
431.0 6967 -22.5 -26.5 70 1.02 210 41 318.8 322.4 319.0
400.0 7510 -26.5 -30.9 66 0.73 210 39 320.5 323.1 320.6
321.0 9059 -39.1 -46.1 47 0.19 210 32 323.8 324.6 323.9

Leysdown, north Kent
Saint Snow
10 March 2024 17:58:05

Well the GFS 0z would probably break the March CET record.  Incredible warmth .
 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



Hopefully doesn't get anywhere near that.

I don't want to see heat until May at least (and then not relent until September)

Martin
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idj20
10 March 2024 19:10:03
If the tail end of the latest ECM run does verify, that is like this Autumn leaving the room after a long row, then coming back in shouting "Oh, and one more thing!". 
Folkestone Harbour. 
Rob K
10 March 2024 20:00:25

The highest 850hPa temperature in the UK during the 20th Century that I'm aware of occurred on 8th September 1988. 21C briefly touched the south coast. 

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/reanalysis.aspx?year=1988&month=Sep&dom=08&var=tmp®ion=Eur&level=850&hour=00 

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Was it notably hot at ground level? Trevor Harley has nothing to say about September 1988. 

Back on the current models, a week or so ago it was looking like a cool easterly spell was likely for March. Now I see temperatures set to be in the mid teens for most of the next 10 days. Was that it?
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
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Jiries
11 March 2024 06:29:17

Was it notably hot at ground level? Trevor Harley has nothing to say about September 1988. 

Back on the current models, a week or so ago it was looking like a cool easterly spell was likely for March. Now I see temperatures set to be in the mid teens for most of the next 10 days. Was that it?

Originally Posted by: Rob K 



 I notice that on the app temps was between 6 to 8 to now 13 to 14 but very mild nights so meaning wind and rain again instead of dry mild sunny days and frosty nights.  This autumn had been around since end of June so longest 9 month now and fully expecting to be like that all year round Autumn pattern becoming new normal so completely wipe out other 3 seasons and no variety anymore.  
Retron
11 March 2024 06:34:26

Was it notably hot at ground level? Trevor Harley has nothing to say about September 1988.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


From the sounding I posted, 20.0 and a 16C dewpoint at midnight - pretty warm for September, and noteworthy for the 80s! These days I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid...

 
Leysdown, north Kent
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
11 March 2024 07:33:25
WX charts - freezing weather area shrinking NE-wards, clearing from the Baltic and W Russia by week 2, but with some 'hangback' so whereas most of W Europe is mild in week 1, there is a cooler area across the N German plain to Scotland in week 2.  The Alps remain cold and there are reports of stormy weather there too in connection with fatal skiing accident near Zermatt. Most of Europe damp in week 1, heaviest rain on fringes of NE Atlantic, becoming very dry over France and England in week 2, the rain departs for the Balkans and Turkey.

GFS O p - current Lp over England, filling, HP over France/Germany then persisting to Wed 20th with SW-lies for Britain and LPs in the flow brushing NW Scotland  & W Ireland(notably 975mb Wed 13th Shetland, 990 mb Sun 17th W Ireland). New HP develops S of Iceland and moves to settle over N Britain (1045mb Aberdeen Fri 22nd) persisting  while moving slowly S-ward to Wed 27th with mostly E/SE winds. Last frame has it moving W-wards and possibly opening the gate for a strong N-ly. 

ECM starts with similar pressure distribution, but shifted E-wards a couple of hundred miles so LPs affect more than just the W edges of Britain e.g, Fri 15th 995mb Clyde. The HP then fails to develop and on Thu 21st there is LP 990 mb SW Ireland with an extended trough NE-wards.

GEFS mild (Scotland with a dip Thu 14th) with good ens agreement to Wed 20th , after which mean returns to norm in the midst of a very wide range of outputs , individual outputs also very variable( a few extremely cold for Scotland around Thu 21st). Small amounts of rain Wed 13th and Sun 17th (also 15th in the N) after which ens members go their own way, but only heavy in N Ireland/NW Scotland.



I may go and watch the Severn Bore tomorrow, the first 5* bore of the new 11-year cycle, but maybe not if the local forecast continues to get ever wetter
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Chichester 12m asl
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