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Solar Cycles
23 February 2018 12:22:51
I still maintain for those in the East, NE, SE, South and Central areas the synoptics are as good as it gets, for those of us to the West of the Pennines I wouldn’t get overly excited just yet. It will be very cold for these areas no doubt but snow amounts will be patchy and light IMO.
Gavin D
23 February 2018 12:47:43

High res NMM showing the cold air (850's) spreading west across Europe looking like the -14s will be hanging around for a wee while


tempresult_nvf7.gif


Saint Snow
23 February 2018 12:50:49

 I'm hoping to see a variety of set-ups, flow directions and features over the next 7-10 days, in order to give as much of the UK a dumping of snow as possible. If it sets up as a pure easterly throughout and the same places get all the snow, then it'll be pretty crappy.


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
polarwind
23 February 2018 12:50:55


 


We should remember that Europe is only a small proportion of the world's (or even of the Northern Hemisphere's) land surface. Also if Spring is delayed by a month over Europe, it could be at least partly counterbalanced by it being brought forward by a month over eastern North America.


Originally Posted by: jhall 

I agree.


But there is a great deal of evidence that the climate of NW Europe is correlated with and fundamental to/with global synoptics. This it seems, is related to the strength and position of the Azores High and its influence on the Rossby Waves that circle the earth. And in this respect, much comment has been made on this thread, that 'something, this year is different'. The difference I see is that the Azores High has ridged to the WNW rather than the ENE direction of the greater part of the last 30 years or so. This has changed the Jet stream pattern such that in our parts, it is directed WNW to ESE, rather than SW to NE. This influences the pattern downstream, but less influentially.


Importantly, over Europe, the SE diving jet stimulates the formation of low pressure over south Europe and importantly gives room for High Pressure to form to the NE and when this happens the High influences the jet pattern in its own way.


These presently different synoptics, can, at the right time affect European snow cover in Spring (and Autumn) to an extent which will certainly affect the extent and duration of European snow cover and to a reasonable extent, western Asia. The Albedo will increase in these areas and the global connection i'll leave to those scientists making such claims.


"The professional standards of science must impose a framework of discipline and at the same time encourage rebellion against it". – Michael Polyani (1962)
"If climate science is sound and accurate, then it should be able to respond effectively to all the points raised…." - Grandad
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts". - Bertrand Russell
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
"A consensus means that everyone agrees to say collectively what no one believes individually.”- Abba Eban, Israeli diplomat
Dave,Derby
Brian Gaze
23 February 2018 13:01:24



High res NMM showing the cold air (850's) spreading west across Europe looking like the -14s will be hanging around for a wee while


tempresult_nvf7.gif



Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


It's getting so scary that I intend to start playing these loops in reverse.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Russwirral
23 February 2018 13:03:53

I still maintain for those in the East, NE, SE, South and Central areas the synoptics are as good as it gets, for those of us to the West of the Pennines I wouldn’t get overly excited just yet. It will be very cold for these areas no doubt but snow amounts will be patchy and light IMO.

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 


 


This has caught us out in the past (ok so no massive amounts) but i remember I think it was 2009 or 2005 when a very similar setup hit.  Cold air was meant to bring snow showers to the east on the sunday afternoon, and more widespread by the monday or tuesday.  The forecast was nailed on.


 


Woke on sunday in Manchester to moderate snow falling.  The showers on the breeze and the upper air temps just penetrated the whole country from the get go,.


Gray-Wolf
23 February 2018 13:07:45

Well , we're now into the time frame that normally sees the whole thing fall flat on its face? I have concerns about the warmth to our south and the chances of WAA from there to spoil our fun ( esp. next weekend which was looking good even for S.C.?).


It would not take much of a shift to see a good part of the UK no longer under deep cold uppers and back into uppers less likely to bring us the goods?


Koyaanisqatsi
ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
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Solar Cycles
23 February 2018 13:12:10


Well , we're now into the time frame that normally sees the whole thing fall flat on its face? I have concerns about the warmth to our south and the chances of WAA from there to spoil our fun ( esp. next weekend which was looking good even for S.C.?).


It would not take much of a shift to see a good part of the UK no longer under deep cold uppers and back into uppers less likely to bring us the goods?


Originally Posted by: Gray-Wolf 

Indeed, and I’ve been keeping my eye on that Gray.

bradders
23 February 2018 13:16:09

I still maintain for those in the East, NE, SE, South and Central areas the synoptics are as good as it gets, for those of us to the West of the Pennines I wouldn’t get overly excited just yet. It will be very cold for these areas no doubt but snow amounts will be patchy and light IMO.

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 


I agree about the snow amounts, during the 62-63 winter snow amounts in the Macclesfield area (close to the Pennines) were light and patchy.


 



Eric. Cheadle Hulme, Stockport.
Nordic Snowman
23 February 2018 13:18:34

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png

Continuing to trend colder IMO. And although not an outlier, the operational is one of the mildest options with little support.
Thinking this will be a 2 week severe spell at least.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Yes, a great set of GEFS there.


A bit messy to look at closely but IMO it seems (understandably given recent runs) that 5th March is when we see the start of two possible clusters beginning to show. Given the NWP tends to side with progression, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the colder cluster gain support in the days ahead. I really do think that March will be a well below average month through to the end. Inevitably there will be less cold incursions but again, combined with the METO forecasts as well as the SSW and NAO, I think the chances are in favour for the cold to continue. Another factor will be that once the cold/snow is established, it will invariably prove somewhat difficult to nudge away. This breeds the foundation for a potentially record-breaking snowy March. I wouldn't bet against it!



Bjorli, Norway

Website 
Gandalf The White
23 February 2018 13:18:55


 


It's getting so scary that I intend to start playing these loops in reverse.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 



Time to buy shares in a plumbing business....



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Saint Snow
23 February 2018 13:20:25


 



Time to buy shares in a plumbing business....



Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


 


Matty H is already booking a private jet to Florida for the family summer holiday


 


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Gandalf The White
23 February 2018 13:21:56

Just looked at the table for London showing the height of 0c across the GEFS 06z....


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_table.php?x=0&y=0&lat=51.5085&lon=-0.12574&run=6&ext=fr&mode=14&sort=0


 


I don't think I've ever seen every perturbation showing 0c at the surface for such a prolonged period.  Pretty much all the way from Sunday night to Friday.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


westv
23 February 2018 13:28:21


It would not take much of a shift to see a good part of the UK no longer under deep cold uppers and back into uppers less likely to bring us the goods?


Originally Posted by: Gray-Wolf 


At the risk of being lynched, I hope you're right! 


At least it will be mild!
Rob K
23 February 2018 13:35:09
Someone has obviously given the BBC computer a kick as now instead of showing 3-5C maxes next week here it is showing 0s and 1s for the most part.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Weathermac
23 February 2018 13:36:37


Well , we're now into the time frame that normally sees the whole thing fall flat on its face? I have concerns about the warmth to our south and the chances of WAA from there to spoil our fun ( esp. next weekend which was looking good even for S.C.?).


It would not take much of a shift to see a good part of the UK no longer under deep cold uppers and back into uppers less likely to bring us the goods?


Originally Posted by: Gray-Wolf 


On the contrary this cold air once in place will take some shifting hence the met suggesting staying v cold well into march.

polarwind
23 February 2018 13:44:38


 


It's getting so scary that I intend to start playing these loops in reverse.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

850 hpa vales of -26C on the near continent .........wow


"The professional standards of science must impose a framework of discipline and at the same time encourage rebellion against it". – Michael Polyani (1962)
"If climate science is sound and accurate, then it should be able to respond effectively to all the points raised…." - Grandad
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts". - Bertrand Russell
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
"A consensus means that everyone agrees to say collectively what no one believes individually.”- Abba Eban, Israeli diplomat
Dave,Derby
Maunder Minimum
23 February 2018 13:51:05


 


It's getting so scary that I intend to start playing these loops in reverse.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Isn't that a little alarmist Brian? It is not as though this country has never experienced winter weather before. It is what it is - a cold snap and we will come out the other side and wonder what all the fuss was about.


In the meantime, let's just enjoy the synoptics and whatever they produce.


New world order coming.
wintermigrant
23 February 2018 14:04:01
Surely the south east is covered in that update by "Showers are most likely across eastern and central parts of the UK where accumulations may mount up"? Meaning the whole of eastern UK and some central parts are in the firing line? That would also align with the model output?
Location: Chalgrove, Oxfordshire (4 miles from Benson)
moomin75
23 February 2018 14:09:45

At times like this, with the most extraordinary charts on show, I think it's nice to remember those that have left us.


I'd like to think dear old Dougie (God bless him) has done us all a favour up there and pressed the right button to deliver this for us.


The charts are just astonishing across the board, and having been on this forum since around 2006, my thoughts are genuinely with all those no longer with us that would be salivating along with us at what is unfolding.


 


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
polarwind
23 February 2018 14:15:19


 


Isn't that a little alarmist Brian? It is not as though this country has never experienced winter weather before. It is what it is - a cold snap and we will come out the other side and wonder what all the fuss was about.


In the meantime, let's just enjoy the synoptics and whatever they produce.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

We'll certainly continue to enjoy the synoptics, but, I think that Brian sees this cold snap as having a big bite and 850 Hpa's around 18/20C will certainly give us that. 


"The professional standards of science must impose a framework of discipline and at the same time encourage rebellion against it". – Michael Polyani (1962)
"If climate science is sound and accurate, then it should be able to respond effectively to all the points raised…." - Grandad
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts". - Bertrand Russell
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
"A consensus means that everyone agrees to say collectively what no one believes individually.”- Abba Eban, Israeli diplomat
Dave,Derby
Chiltern Blizzard
23 February 2018 14:16:06


 


Isn't that a little alarmist Brian? It is not as though this country has never experienced winter weather before. It is what it is - a cold snap and we will come out the other side and wonder what all the fuss was about.


In the meantime, let's just enjoy the synoptics and whatever they produce.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


True, but a good number (ie those under 30) would never have experienced what it looks like we’re about to!


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Brian Gaze
23 February 2018 14:22:51


 


Isn't that a little alarmist Brian? It is not as though this country has never experienced winter weather before. It is what it is - a cold snap and we will come out the other side and wonder what all the fuss was about.


In the meantime, let's just enjoy the synoptics and whatever they produce.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Yes I was being a tad  However I think we're heading for a memorable cold spell or at the very least an extremely interesting one. Obviously I don't know the details of your contract situation but if it was me I would probably do a bunk next week and stay in the UK just to watch it unfold.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Polar Vortex
23 February 2018 14:25:05
http://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/ims/ims_gif/DATA/cursnow_asiaeurope.gif 
Hoping / expecting to see that increase significantly during the weekend, which should help to sustain the cold pool for longer when the ultra low 850 temps arrive.


Thetford
Norfolk
ASL: 45 m or 148 ft
Matty H
23 February 2018 14:25:50


 


 


Matty H is already booking a private jet to Florida for the family summer holiday


 


 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Times like this I wish I was back on the tools


again re snow cover - as per last night and as per Stormchaser really. Some people see dark purple uppers and automatically assume it means snow. It really doesn’t. Favoured areas from an easterly will get plenty. Over here in the west we will need troughs that hold together, or fronts pushing up into the cold air 


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