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idj20
03 June 2024 08:18:20

We just had the warmest Spring on record, and we are on the 3rd day of summer, hardly baltic. 

Originally Posted by: Zubzero 



But hardly that warm. 😂 It's been an underwhelming meteorological Spring, at least for this neck of the woods. 

Anyway, at least the latest runs offers a temporary glimmer of hope in terms of some prolonged decent weather beyond this week, but in the deterministic range it's pretty much the same old same old.  
Folkestone Harbour. 
Jiries
03 June 2024 08:29:43

Excellent GFS and GEM this morning HP builds over the UK by 144h. GFS In particular turns into a classic early summer run. Temps mid to high 20s! ☀️☀️☀️🤞🤞 🤞

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



Let hope so because after a false warmest spring on record when temps didn't go to 25C in March, 29C in April or 33C in May which are the 3 hottest maxes on each Spring month that qualifiy warmest spring on record.    Let hope it continue the trend to correction summery pattern we badly needed this year. 
fairweather
03 June 2024 09:00:13
How do the models manage to predict bad weather long term with such precision yet fail miserably with good weather short term! I am going to Shetland tomorrow for a week's holiday. All I ask for is for some dry days and not too windy or cold and some bright spells for photography. I started looking as soon as it came into range on GFS two weeks ago. It said it would change from tomorrow to windy cold, 40% chance of rain every day and 9-11C. It hasn't changed from that one iota and today it has said it will start to improve Tuesday next week wen I return!
Compare that with two weeks ago when I decided at short notice to go to the New Forest for two days as the forecast on the Sunday night for Tuesday/Wednesday was warm, sunny Tuesday and hazy sunshine Wednesday with the risk of a shower. The reality was sunny Tuesday morning then 36 hours solid of rain! So this is about model output predictions but it gets worse so the rest can go in the "Moaning" thread!
S.Essex, 42m ASL
Chunky Pea
03 June 2024 14:22:18

Oh for Pete’s sake, 18z is a real stinker again for summer lovers. Back to square one with cool conditions. Top temps scraping 17c in the sun in mid June… the Baltic summer continues. 

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 



Wouldn't that be around average though? 17c any time of year could in no way be described as 'Baltic', if you mean that in the winterly sense anyway. The Baltics can get very hot in Summer. 
Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Ally Pally Snowman
03 June 2024 17:30:31
Decent set of 12s , are we finally losing the HLB?
🤞 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Sage
03 June 2024 22:56:00

How do the models manage to predict bad weather long term with such precision yet fail miserably with good weather short term! I am going to Shetland tomorrow for a week's holiday. All I ask for is for some dry days and not too windy or cold and some bright spells for photography. I started looking as soon as it came into range on GFS two weeks ago. It said it would change from tomorrow to windy cold, 40% chance of rain every day and 9-11C. It hasn't changed from that one iota and today it has said it will start to improve Tuesday next week wen I return!
Compare that with two weeks ago when I decided at short notice to go to the New Forest for two days as the forecast on the Sunday night for Tuesday/Wednesday was warm, sunny Tuesday and hazy sunshine Wednesday with the risk of a shower. The reality was sunny Tuesday morning then 36 hours solid of rain! So this is about model output predictions but it gets worse so the rest can go in the "Moaning" thread!

Originally Posted by: fairweather 



I'm in Shetland at the moment, you'll get all the weather in one day, we've had lovely sun, pouring rain, wind, all at different times today, you'll still get plenty of good pictures.  Cold and wind is what they are good at up here, just wrap up and have a good holiday.
White Meadows
04 June 2024 07:16:39
ECM evolution is beautiful this morning…. If it were January and you like proper winter weather! 
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
04 June 2024 07:17:54
WX temp charts much as yesterday; a cool plunge from the north in week 1 mainly affecting Britain and North Sea areas, being pushed eastwards in week 2 to the EBaltic and W Russia, while its place is taken by warmth from the south - France becoming hot, England warm and Scotland at least milder (well, snow showers for the mountains were on the BBC forecast for this week). Most of the rain for Europe in C & E areas, but some still hanging around N Scotland (week 1) and N England (week 2).

GFS Op - current LP near Iceland about to feed in some modified Arctic air, and remaining close to the NE until Sun 9th after which HP builds from the SW to cover Britain 1025mb Tue 11th. This is diminished by a shallow trough off W Ireland Sat 15th which weakens as it moves eastwards and HP is back in control Tue 18th (though there is a thundery-looking LP over the Low Countries Thu 20th).

ECM - similar to GFS and not showing an LP settling over England later on, as it did yesterday. Its final chart for Fri 14th indicates that the trough off W Ireland is being held off by a ridge of HP connecting to Norway.

GEM - agrees with ECM though keeping the current LP closer to Scotland for a day longer

GEFS - EDIT, updated - dip in temps to 5C below norm in the next couple of days, rising steadily back to norm Wed 12th with good agreement to that point. Mean then stays near norm with a variety of outliers from warm to cool.  Dry at first, small amounts of rain in some runs  from Tue 11th in S & SW;  but some rain in most runs throughout elsewhere, heavy at times in W Scotland 
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
cultman1
04 June 2024 13:49:34
So is the anticipated warm up / improvement going become a reality next week? The Met Office has a different take for mid June 
Ally Pally Snowman
04 June 2024 17:28:53
Greenland blocking back on the 12s. Wnak! 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Matty H
04 June 2024 23:41:39
To my actually not untrained eye, after a couple of decades - the general model output remains absolute sh1t3…
Jiries
05 June 2024 05:33:51

Greenland blocking back on the 12s. Wnak! 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



This time of the year we usually look for settled, heatwaves, plumes and thunderstorms but sadly all about idiot Greenland high that really have to be compulsory effect uk with several degrees below average temps?  Cyprus having a heatwave so why not allowed for some warmth let alone average temps in here.
White Meadows
05 June 2024 06:19:11
Yep, we had an av. 14 degree max May, continuing with a 15 degree av. max June on the south coast. So far this summer only shaping up to be memorable for the wrong reasons. Ensembles looks like ground hog day til the end but at least the June monsoon looks to have occurred either early or possibly in July instead. That would really be the nail in the coffin. 

 
Ally Pally Snowman
05 June 2024 06:32:39

This time of the year we usually look for settled, heatwaves, plumes and thunderstorms but sadly all about idiot Greenland high that really have to be compulsory effect uk with several degrees below average temps?  Cyprus having a heatwave so why not allowed for some warmth let alone average temps in here.

Originally Posted by: Jiries 



As you say the heat is there and record breaking heat at that in southern Europe . But getting the right synoptics to pump it up to Blighty seems impossible atm. It's looking pretty dry at least in the South.

 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
05 June 2024 06:45:10
ECM is the best of a bad bunch this morning.  Mainly because it has less Greenland blocking,  the models are really struggling with how much HP will be over Greenland atm so anything past 120h highly suspect. 
 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
05 June 2024 06:56:24
WX temp charts are a disappointment this morning. The week 1 cold plunge from Iceland affecting mainly countries around the North Sea (i.e. including Britain) is still there, but temperatures fail to recover in W Europe in week 2. The warmth from the south 'pencilled in' yesterday does not materialise; there is only patchy warmth over France and it does not reach Britain, while the Baltic states regain their sweltering early summer. Rain in week 1 for Scotland and Norway, and in a band from C to E Europe, though dry-ish for England; these areas of rain persist into week 2.

GFS Op - LP near Faeroes slow to break up and move to Norway which it does by Mon 10th, in the meantime generating cool W/NW-lies for Britain. A 'blink-and-you've-missed-it' HP is rapidly followed by  a couple of shallow LPs from the Atlantic; 1005mb Scotland Wed 12th, 1005mb again Irish Sea Sat 15th. The latter slowly moves N-wards and a more convincing ridge of HP moves into W Britain from the SW from Wed 19th.

ECM - resembles GFS though the brief HP lasts two days rather than one. Noted that yesterday's 12z kept this HP going but this morning's 00z, like GFS, brings in an Atlantic LP for Sat 15th.

GEM - resembles GFS at first. The 'shallow LPs' appear as a more extensive (and cooler) trough from Iceland which slowly moves away to the NE. HP is nudging in by Sat 15th but remaining some distance west of Ireland, so still cool for most.

GEFS - Temps now down to cool and staying somewhat below norm everywhere until about Thu 13th with quite good agreement of ens members, then a greater spread but still not far from norm for the following week. Dry in the south for week 1, a little rain in the north; then a bit more rain everywhere with one or two runs suggesting heavy falls. Always driest in the SW.

 
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Ally Pally Snowman
05 June 2024 07:10:58
Just looking back at winter most of the time 850s were warmer than now. Upto 10c warmer at times. Gotta love the UK weather 🙃🙃🙃
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
David M Porter
05 June 2024 08:52:09

We just had the warmest Spring on record, and we are on the 3rd day of summer, hardly baltic. 

Originally Posted by: Zubzero 



I think much of the reason for the spring being as warm as it turned out to be was the amount of cloud cover for much of the time which stopped temperatures from falling too low at night at any time. I might be wrong, but I don't recall any daily maximum temperature records for the UK being broken at any point in March, April or May.

FWIW, much of the first half of April in my neck of the woods was baltic, as well as wet and miserable.
Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
David M Porter
05 June 2024 09:00:37

Just looking back at winter most of the time 850s were warmer than now. Upto 10c warmer at times. Gotta love the UK weather 🙃🙃🙃

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



Only a guess, but maybe that has been something to do with the recent El Nino coming to an end?
Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
GezM
  • GezM
  • Advanced Member
05 June 2024 09:32:16
Quite a downturn in fortunes this morning for warm weather fans. That Atlantic high ridges and then retrogresses right back and allows cooler and unsettled weather to push down from the north west.

Anything properly settled looks to be in the "jam tomorrow" range. Met Office long term forecast doesn't offer much comfort either.  
Living in St Albans, Herts (116m asl)
Working at Luton Airport, Beds (160m asl)
doctormog
05 June 2024 09:58:30

I think much of the reason for the spring being as warm as it turned out to be was the amount of cloud cover for much of the time which stopped temperatures from falling too low at night at any time. I might be wrong, but I don't recall any daily maximum temperature records for the UK being broken at any point in March, April or May.

FWIW, much of the first half of April in my neck of the woods was baltic, as well as wet and miserable.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 



That is true to a certain extent, but the monthly summary maps show that the daily maxima were also above average for almost the entire UK (over 2.5⁰C above for much of Scotland). Not only that but these anomalies are compared with the milder 91-20 average and not the 61-90 dataset. I'm sure someone will no doubt say something that denies this just to be contrary but the data are readily available.
David M Porter
05 June 2024 11:51:24

That is true to a certain extent, but the monthly summary maps show that the daily maxima were also above average for almost the entire UK (over 2.5⁰C above for much of Scotland). Not only that but these anomalies are compared with the milder 91-20 average and not the 61-90 dataset. I'm sure someone will no doubt say something that denies this just to be contrary but the data are readily available.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



Hi Michael 🙂

I think the persistence of weather and winds from warmer directions probably had a lot to do with it too. We're in the middle of a cool northwesterly spell at the moment; how many of those did we have at any point during March, April or May? Virtually none that I can recall. Last winter had very little, if any, spells of weather from any northerly directions either as far as I remember.

I was outside not long before typing this post, and I can promise you that it feels as cool here at the moment as it did at any time during the spring, or last winter for that matter.

 
Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
cultman1
05 June 2024 16:07:46
Are there any signs after the weekend for things warming up next week ? Apparently high pressure is meant to be building in from the SW this weekend? 
White Meadows
05 June 2024 22:34:57

Are there any signs after the weekend for things warming up next week ? Apparently high pressure is meant to be building in from the SW this weekend? 

Originally Posted by: cultman1 


Nope ‘fraid not. Just a steady rise from 15 degrees to 17c daytime maxes on the south coast which will carry us past summer solstice to month end.
Latest ECM has gone from bad to dogs**t sandwich with a nasty low parked over the UK for next weekend. 
 
Retron
06 June 2024 04:58:33

That is true to a certain extent, but the monthly summary maps show that the daily maxima were also above average for almost the entire UK (over 2.5⁰C above for much of Scotland). Not only that but these anomalies are compared with the milder 91-20 average and not the 61-90 dataset. I'm sure someone will no doubt say something that denies this just to be contrary but the data are readily available.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Spot on. As I've said before, the "UK is now in the Med" mindset has really grown over the past 20 years - you see it on here, you see it in the press, you see it on social media.

Heaven forbid we actually get a cold (91-20) summer, for once! They should come along every other year, or just under, on average, but every summer since 2015 has ended up above the 91-20 average.

No sign of that changing down here at least, with the models showing plenty of sunshine, with temperatures at or above average over the coming week... at least according to the new MetO output. The raw GFS has 15/16/16 here for today, tomorrow and Saturday, compared with 19/20/21 for the MetO.

I don't know whether it applies elsewhere in the UK, but for the past month or so the GFS has been absolutely atrocious... it's always underestimated maxima by a degree or two in summer, generally, but it's plumbing new depths at the moment. The other day was a good example: GFS had 18, MetO 22, it ended up as 22.3. A model that's consistently 3 or more degrees out really isn't very good.

 
Leysdown, north Kent

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